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Electoral college is for the presidency. But the political power discrepancy between rural and urban areas is quite stark in other branches of government.

For example: Right now in the US there are 2 senators from each state. California with a population of over 39 million has 2 senators, Alaska with a population around 700,000 also has 2 senators.



> Alaska with a population around 700,000 also has 2 senators

As does:

1. Wyoming (Population: 572,381)

2. Vermont (Population: 627,180)

3. Alaska (Population: 735,720)

4. North Dakota (Population: 760,900)

5. South Dakota (Population: 892,631)

6. Delaware (Population: 975,033)

7. Rhode Island (Population: 1,056,738)

8. Montana (Population: 1,074,532)

9. Maine (Population: 1,342,097)

10. New Hampshire (Population: 1,363,852)

These states combined control 20% of the Senate with a roughly combined population of 10 million people. That's only 25% the population of California alone, or 3% of the total country.

Now obviously the Senate/House power balance was designed with this in mind. But the House hasn't reapportioned representation by population in a century.

Seems to me like the American democratic system has a very large bias for rural voters, especially when you consider where in the country presidential campaigns start every 4 years.


> But the House hasn't reapportioned representation by population in a century.

The House reapportions by population after each census (10 years), with the exception of the notable failure after the 1920 Census.

The House hasn't increased total size since the reapportionment after the 1910 census, which is probably what you are thinking of.


> The House hasn't increased total size since the reapportionment after the 1910 census, which is probably what you are thinking of.

Doesn't this effectively make it impossible to correctly reapportion by population though, because without a change in size a number of low population states "should" have < 1 member?


No, they are performing the task as outlined by the constitution, which is the “correct” method, and which the people are free to amend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_Stat...


Ok, but that's heading into a circle though. The complaint I thought is that the "correct" method does not result in proportion by population, and some people think that would be better.


Many people often think that something different than an existing system would be better or more advantageous for themselves and advocate for it. Claiming rightness or correctness is an appeal to a moral sense of fair play for which their counter-parties are not likely imagine reciprocated once the change comes to fruition.

I’m surprised that given technology advances people don’t just cut out the expensive elected officials and put everything up to several national votes per day. If you think that the founders got the proportional balance wrong, what about the temporal balance? Why invest decision making power in one person over such long time frames?


> Doesn't this effectively make it impossible to correctly reapportion by population though, because without a change in size a number of low population states "should" have < 1 member?

You can define “correctly reapportion” in a way that this is true, but there is no reason to think that was the Constitutional intent.

Which isn't to say I don't think there is a policy problem, I just don't think you can reduce it to incorrect apportionment.


That is correct.


"But the House hasn't reapportioned representation by population in a century."

Not sure where you live, but since 1914 in Colorado:

1914 - four representatives

1973 - five representatives

1983 - six representatives

2003 - seven representatives

So clearly seats are added as population changes in a state.

See also: https://www.insightsassociation.org/article/states-expected-...


Yes, Colorado gained states, but some other states lost seats. The overall size of the House is unchanged in over a century.


I stand corrected. Feeling particularly silly as I’m from Colorado and probably should have known that.


No. 385 are redistributed, which still enforces unequal representation, as states with less population than some territories have more purchasing power in the House. For example, Wyoming get a rep for 500,000 people, but everyone else has to pay 700,000 people.

To truly remedy this situation in the House, you have to bring the House up to about 930.

https://time.com/5423623/house-representatives-number-seats/


Of course, if we went by the original law of 30,000 people per congressperson, we'd have over 10,000 representatives.

I'm not sure adding more reps would make the system work any better - part of me thinks it would be even more expensive and chaotic.


That was the explicit purpose of the Senate: each state is equal in the union. Senators weren't even supposed to represent the state's people; they represented the state itself up until the misguided Seventeenth Amendment. Representation proportional to the population is the purpose of the House - that's why our government has two chambers.


This is a flawed argument, because the House isn't proportional to population, either. It's _still_ weighted towards smaller, emptier states.


Also, the two chambers are not equal. The Senate is very clearly the upper chamber.


The House is the chamber with actual power, while the Senate was intended to act as a check on the House and the executive. That's why the 17th amendment made such a mess: they were supposed to represent state interests, and especially having a balanced budget is much more a state interest than a popular interest.

In particular, for any bill requiring spending, the Senate can only amend a bill that started in the House. Impeachment must start in the house and is then tried in the Senate. The Senate can't nominate someone to office, they can only confirm a nominee presented by the executive.


Spatial metaphors are not illustrative. Please give some examples of what you mean.


This isn't a spatial metaphor any more than "upperclassmen" and "underclassmen" are for high schools or "left" and "right" are for politics. We call it the "upper" chamber because it's supposed to be the higher status, more "dignified" chamber.

Words have histories of course, and probably at one point this was a spatial metaphor - maybe some bicameral legislature literally did have one of their higher status body on a different floor than their lower status body. But the words upper and lower when applied to the legislative branch have evolved since then.


The Senate alone has the power to confirm every judge in the entire judicial branch. The House has absolutely no say in any of that.


The Senate is who convicts impeached officials. They approve judges and cabinet appointments.


All states get at least one House member.

Should some states have zero?


No, but the total number should not have been fixed in 1929 to stop continued increase (and thereby accelerate inequality in representation.)


Misguided? Are you saying you want to go back to when your state's House Reps decided your state's Senators?

I understand our federal politics are a complete mess but think that has more to do to equating money with freedom of speech, the great return on campaign donations, the polarization of our media and the lack of solid non-partisan research institutes that our elected leaders can rely upon. Have you ever watched CSPAN? Our leaders routinely become informed about the world around us through the same mass media as we do.


>Are you saying you want to go back to when your state's House Reps decided your state's Senators?

I would not mind that


This would give even more power to special interests, as they only need to influence a governor (or a small number of state reps) to get their senate choice, rather than all the voters in the state. I can’t see why that’s better, since at least now senators have to pretend to represent constituents.


oh good... pretending to represent constituents... holding the bulwark against special interests.


Maybe you could explain how your position improves upon this...


>>For example: Right now in the US there are 2 senators from each state. California with a population of over 39 million has 2 senators, Alaska with a population around 700,000 also has 2 senators.

This was all by design. The smaller states would not have joined the union if it mean that the bigger states would monopolize all the power.


Yes but maybe we can reform the system to make US more democratic. This question is about why this has been this way, rather it's about whether it's worth to change it even it was originally justified. Are people in Wyoming willing to leave the union if their votes are exactly equal to Californians?


And the other question: Are people in California willing to leave the union if their votes are not exactly equal to Wyoming's?


All states get one electoral college vote for each member of Congress they have.

All states have two Senators and at least one member of the House, with additional House members based on their population.

This is why California (with it's large population) has 55 electoral college votes, while Alaska only gets the default minimum of three.


>For example: Right now in the US there are 2 senators from each state. California with a population of over 39 million has 2 senators, Alaska with a population around 700,000 also has 2 senators.

This is why we have the House of Representatives, which is based on population. California has 53 representatives, Alaska has one.

The original idea as I understand it, before the 17th amendment, was that the Senate was supposed to represent the interests of the states, hence two senators from each equally represented state. While the House was supposed to represent the interests of the residents of those states.


It's still not proportional. Life the limit of Representatives in the house. It was passed by simple law, it can be repealed by simple law. Make it proportional and you will have an argument, though not a great one because the Senate has more power than the House based on judicial appointments alone.




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