> If someone does not want to negotiate, CarMax is okay. The prices are not the best, but they are clearly shown online and the buying process is dead simple.
You should revisit your first three paragraphs to understand why people are okay with Carmax's prices. Buying a car should not be war, it should not be a hassle, and you should not have to wonder the entire time how you're going to get screwed.
Disclaimer: I have bought over 11 cars from Carmax for myself and family; never once have I been dissatisfied. Next car is a Model S or X.
> You should revisit your first three paragraphs to understand why people are okay with Carmax's prices.
It's pretty simple, they're willing to pay extra to avoid negotiation
> Buying a car should not be war, it should not be a hassle, and you should not have to wonder the entire time how you're going to get screwed.
Why not? If you have a business idea ("it shouldnt be a hassle!") then go for it. But if you think negotiating is unfair, well, yeah, of course it's unfair. File that next to "The Spurs lost" and "I'm not married to a supermodel."
> But if you think negotiating is unfair, well, yeah, of course it's unfair. File that next to "The Spurs lost" and "I'm not married to a supermodel."
So you accept and encourage car salesmen to take advantage of people with poor negotiating skills (or people that are easily manipulated)? Do these people deserve to have their money taken from them, or does their lack of skill mean that they shouldn't be buying a car at all?
I guess my flippant answer is "Yes." My less flippant answer is that autos are one of the few personal purchases that US consumers usually have to negotiate a price for. (Of course, many people regularly negotiate as part of their jobs.)
"Should" car purchases be negotiations? Well, they aren't at all dealers or with all brands but it's the way things have evolved in the US generally. I don't consider it right or wrong in some general sense; it's just the way things are. And there are other options for those who choose not to negotiate although they probably won't be quite as good a deal as an aggressively negotiated and shopped around for purchase.
> "Should" car purchases be negotiations? Well, they aren't at all dealers or with all brands but it's the way things have evolved in the US generally. I don't consider it right or wrong in some general sense; it's just the way things are.
Is there really a general trend for new cars to be purchased at a non-negotiable price, with standard non-negotiable financing, and with trade-in independent of the new car purchase? I can point to some examples (including but not limited to Tesla) where at least a "no haggle" price is the case but it doesn't seem particularly common. One thing is that, while a lot of people claim to dislike negotiating, those same people want to get a real or perceived "good deal."
There is not such a trend, for new cars. Remember that new cars are mostly sold by dealers who have exclusive territories. That gives dealers the freedom to pick a business model that maximizes dealer profits.
I agree with the principles of what you are saying; but practically speaking: where does one draws the line? How does that differs from everyday --most often misleading and pretty much fake-- Advertisement? How about mortgage? Surely that is nothing more than ripping off the poor.
In the US, people don't really haggle every day. It's not part of the culture. This stands in stark contrast to the experience of buying a car, which is something people are never going to do frequently enough to build up haggling skills. So it's really context dependent.
In a culture where people haggle constantly (or at least more frequently), then a larger portion of people will have the relevant skill set to navigate these waters. I guess you could "solve" it by building haggling into the culture, but you could also "solve" it by forcing car dealerships to normalize with the way that most other average purchases work.
Don't know much about mortgage, but advertising is clearly a legalized and glorified antisocial behaviour. Somehow lying and tricking people into parting with their money is a respactable occupation nowadays.
You can very easily save a couple thousand dollars in negotiation. I understand the TVM, and I see the value in two ways:
1. I can sit around a dealer for a couple hours and save a couple thousand bucks: that's $500-$1k/hr. Pretty good (e.g., worth my time).
2. I get to practice my negotiation skills. This has gotten fun. And while I will likely never be in the position of negotiating for large amounts (e.g., sale of a business), in that instance a 10% delta could equate to hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I bought a pre-owned car a couple months ago from a high-end, reputable dealer. They pulled the "that guy over there is interested in the same car" trick. I was tempted to go over an introduce myself (should have). Instead I told them the color wasn't my first choice and they should sell to the other guy. I was told the manager came over to "say goodbye" (no he wasn't), so I stood up and put on my coat. We reached a deal. My wife was freaking out. It was fun.
i'd say it means the market isn't being allowed to work or even exist in the first place, which is the whole point of this discussion. 'going for it' is exactly what the establishments are trying to keep Tesla from doing.
You should revisit your first three paragraphs to understand why people are okay with Carmax's prices. Buying a car should not be war, it should not be a hassle, and you should not have to wonder the entire time how you're going to get screwed.
Disclaimer: I have bought over 11 cars from Carmax for myself and family; never once have I been dissatisfied. Next car is a Model S or X.