As a father of two - articles like this come off as incredibly pretentious and I have a really hard time even finishing them.
I feel like so many in the "startup" culture are completely trapped in an imaginary bubble that literally means jack shit to anyone outside it.
You aren't changing the world out there...you're building business.
You are a father and a husband making a conscious adult decision to put work over your family...writing this little "how-to" article does not somehow make you immune to that reality. Venting your elitist self-serving views to the general public does not make you any less irresponsible, much less some sort of "leader".
"From 5:30pm-8:30pm, I’m not a startup CEO. I’m a dad." <- That statement right there pretty much illustrates my point.
No amount of money will ever replace what you're missing out on at home - I guess you'll have to figure that out on your own though. Hopefully your wife and children will give you back the same 1/8th of their time and focus that you give them.
It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled.
My wife and I both work. So, we have our kid in daycare. 5:30-8:30 is actually 100% of the time from daycare pickup until she goes to sleep. If she doesn't go to sleep until 9:30, then that means I'm with her until then.
On the weekends, I work while she naps or is having one on one time with her mom.
My point is that I'm spending as close to 100% of the hours I have with my kid.
I grew up in Green Bay, WI (about as non-bubble as you can get) with a dad who worked nights. Once I was in school, I'd see him at dinners only. But he made every soccer game I was in. He had to make choices between his career and his family. And I think he did an excellent job of it. His time with me, though less than my mom's, was always attentive. We have a great relationship. I think he made the right choices for our family.
This isn't just a Valley issue...I just happen to be in the Valley. Many parents struggle with how to make the tradeoffs between work and family. My hope in sharing my situation is that others can get another perspective and maybe take away a thing or two to try.
> On the weekends, I work while she naps or is having one on one time with her mom.
Do you share household chores with your wife, or does she do mostly all of that work? Kooking, cleaning, changing diapers, feeding the children, cleaning the kitchen table 5 times a day (children are really messy eating snacks), doing the dishes, bathing them, getting up at night when the kids are sick, ... . That's the reality of having kids when you are taking care of them.
There is a HUGE difference between "spending time with your kids" and "taking care of your kids".
Believe me, I have 3 small children and both my wife and I have fulltime jobs, where my wife is abroad 20% of her time. Taking care of kids can drain a lot, I mean a lot of energy.
Don't take this as a personal attack. If you and your wife feel happy in this situation, I'm happy for you. But these kind of articles make it seem as though having kids just means "spending time with them", because it isn't. Someone needs to take care of them 24/7. So to make it more realistic, just mention how much of that 24/7 it's your duty.
> It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled.
I think this is kind of the point though. It seems that running a successful startup rarely allows enough time to spend with our family.
In other words:
- Good work/life balance
- Adequate money for current lifestyle
- Running your own business
- Sustained success
Pick three.
If you're saying you've got the first three nailed down, it may be too early to tell if the fourth one will pan out, at which point you have to swap one of the other three in order to sustain the success.
Not saying it's impossible, but it seems very uncommon (at least, I've not seen too many examples of it).
But maybe this is anecdotal. Curious to hear if others know of examples.
Consider the possibility that your view of the world is very influenced by your social circles and/or media you consume rather than by facts about the world itself.
It is, in fact, not the case that businessmen can't have families. Most do. This is equally true in tech as it is in the rest of the economy. (Also, relatedly, being a startup founder isn't nearly the most all-consuming job available. It isn't even the most all-consuming job available in tech. We're curiously macho about this, as if 14 hour workdays are a unique point of startup pride and not a very common characteristic of systems designed to acculturate young men into professions via hazing.)
> We're curiously macho about this, as if 14 hour workdays are a unique point of startup pride and not a very common characteristic of systems designed to acculturate young men into professions via hazing.
Curious indeed. I've worked at startups where PagerDuty alerts went off in the middle of the night with false alarms every day for two weeks, and wasn't allowed to fix the alerting system because... well, responding to them shows my dedication. It's very important we all suffer together! Just don't let PagerDuty escalate the issue to your frat brothers, initiate.
I get what you're both saying and appreciate both perspectives. To me aepearson is hitting on an systemic flaw in our current culture: we're obsessed with work. Our priorities go something like 1) work, 2) money, 3) work, 4) more money, 5) our kids, 6) marriage, 7) work and money... We're completely out of whack according to a certain system of values which it sounds like I and aepearson share.
For people like me, my priorities go as follows: 1) marriage, 2) kids, 3) work only as much as necessary to pay bills, save for retirement and rainy days. For someone with my priorities, your life sounds like hell--though I give you props for making the choices you are consciously--and there's literally no amount of money which would make rearranging my priorities make sense to me.
Like you I will start a business someday, but when I do it will be a slower burn operating within the constraints of my personal priorities.
It's challenging, but I also apply my same set of priorities in my work life. I don't pursue or accept jobs which will require missing dinner time, which will wipe out my weekends, which will consume me and my life. Life is about so much more than work. It's about time spent with the people you love, doing meaningful things. Someday we'll all die, and I don't want to look back and see just a whole shit load of hours worked (on my own businesses or for others).
I don't fault you for how you're living though. As long as it works for you, your wife, and your family, keep at it. Everyone's different, and has different ideas of what makes a "good life."
I will say that I personally find it frustrating how much pressure there is out there these days to work more for less. I ascribe it to too many people being willing to let work consume them and making it harder on the rest of us who would rather maintain a strict separation of work from home life, working hard for the amount of time we've agreed to work, but otherwise being free to spend the rest of our time as we see fit.
This makes sense. There are plenty of people who do not run or work for start-ups that deal with these very same issues, every day. And many of them don't have the choice to leave the office at 5:00 so they can spend that three hours with their kids. I think your rubber/glass ball story is spot-on: assuming we've invested our lives in more than a single thing, we are constantly involved in balancing acts. Part of life is figuring out how many balls you can have in the air at one time. I know personally I would never be able to do what you're trying, and I'm okay with that. Heck, without kids and wife, I don't think I'd be cut out to be a founder. And I'm okay with that.
Tad, I realize my comment probably came off as incredibly judgemental - which was not my intention... I'm sure you are a good guy and love your family as much as anyone else.
I appreciate your positive candor - and, of course, hope all works out well for you.
With that said - My opinion is that it's REALLY important to give this balance conversation a lot of thought (I struggle with it myself bigtime...always wanting to do more, earn more, grow more, etc. "for my family and our future"...but that's my story, not necessarily yours).
Not in the "how do I pull it off effectively" kinda way (re: your article) - but in a "is this even what matters?" kinda way.
Well...you did call me pretentious. And elitist. And stated I wasn't spending enough time with my family. That was a little judgmental.
But I do get your points on the Valley bubble and the implicit values it places on work/life balance. There's a much higher penchant for career than in other parts of the country. That's why I brought up the fact that I grew up in Green Bay. I understand what a different value structure looks like. There's plenty that I like about it and plenty I don't.
It's always fair to question "what really matters" and "am I doing the right things."
> It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled
You're not spending enough time on your start up AND you're not spending enough time with your family. You're losing on both counts but you will only realize this in ten years.
What's the rush? Couldn't you have accepted a job at a big company for a few years while you plan a start up once your kids are a bit older?
FWIW, there are ample counterexamples of startup founders who have had young children and done very well on both fronts. For example:
All but one of the Fairchild Eight had young children while founding Fairchild (and the modern Silicon Valley).
Jan Koum had two young children while founding WhatsApp.
The Zenter founders both had young children during YCombinator, and ended up getting bought by Google.
It can be done. I doubt anyone would consider it easy, but the data certainly doesn't a blanket claim of "You're not spending enough time on your start up AND you're not spending enough time with your family."
You didn't list any counterexamples, or at least we have no way of knowing if they are counterexamples. You've listed a number of examples where the startup founders had young children while successfully growing their companies but we have no way of knowing whether they were equally successful on the parenting front. Perhaps they sacrificed their parental responsibilities to achieve their business success.
Accepting a job at [big company] is often not a cure for work/life imbalance, especially in tech. It's going to be better balanced than running a start-up, but it's not like you're going to all of a sudden have all your nights and weekends back.
Sure it is. Stay away from jobs that require you to be on call or work nights and weekends. They not only exist, they're the rule, not the exception. Every tech job I've ever had has had occasional spurts of crunch time, but they were relatively few and far between.
People are eager to complain about startup working conditions, but a lot of other jobs have similarly challenging conditions for parents and their children. I don't know why some people have taken your post so badly.
I hate to be "that guy" but this comment is much more pretentious than the blog post. I'm a normal guy with a normal job yet I too can only spend 5:00 PM - 8:00 PM with my daughter (she goes to bed) on the weekdays.
I'd love to work 4 hours a day and spend the rest of my time with her but I work hard to provide for my family. What % of families these days doesn't have at least one spouse working 8+ hour days?
Agree completely. The blog post was one guy sharing his experience to a community likely to be interested. Even if their main message is "this is all-consuming", YC are trying to attract a diverse range of founders (women, minorities, those with families) because it's likely to discover and solve more problems than had by the typical founder. Stories from those will be useful for others.
And, as you said, the life described in the blog post is hardly different from that of a typical worker or small business owner. I run a small business I started 15 years ago, but I still do a late night most weeks where I miss my son's bed time, and have commitments outside of work that means missing some weekend days.
If you work online, you can work after kids have gone to bed, or get up early to knock off a couple of hours before they wake up, etc.
Lots of parents do challenging and impactful work. They too will sometimes have to put work before family. They too will often go home to obnoxious kids after dealing with fires at work all day. They too will compartmentalize because that's what adults do.
If you're a startup CEO who raises a family, that doesn't make you unusual. But writing a blog post about it and then submitting it to HN does make you seem a bit pretentious.
EDIT: Removed language that unintentionally sounded dismissive towards Tiempo's product.
He's offering tips for balancing work/home life, which is a difficult task for many "hackers" and entrepreneurs who have a drive to be successful and important. It's not rocket science, it's not really helpful to me, but what about it is pretentious? I'm assuming if he was a mechanic or secretary it'd no longer be pretentious?
Right. If he were a mechanic or secretary it would no longer be pretentious because there wouldn't be the implication that as a startup CEO he's somehow shouldering an ungodly burden.
I don't think it's pretentious. I think it's helpful for anyone in a similar situation -- I too have a kid and another on the way. If it's irrelevant to you, it's clearly marked and easy to ignore.
After revisiting several hours after having made my original comment, I have to say I agree with you. In no way was he being pretentious. I think I know why I might have read it that way but it doesn't matter. I was wrong and it was unfair of me to say it. To the poster: I apologize.
Been in the same position where I've read something, interpreted it to gain a particular impression, and then not had the same impression after re-reading. It happens!
> "From 5:30pm-8:30pm, I’m not a startup CEO. I’m a dad." <- That statement right there pretty much illustrates my point.
I don't understand. Most of the non-founder, regular engineers with kids I know don't even get home at 5:30. Sounds like he's doing well for a working dad.
> Hopefully your wife and children will give you back the same 1/8th of their time and focus that you give them.
Nobody spends 100% of their day with their family, regardless of how perfect they are as husbands, wives and fathers.
People sleep, work, eat have friends and so on besides having a family. If you manage to be with your kids 3 hours per day around dinner time and you're doing a start-up at the same time I'd say that's absolutely spectacular compared to most people that are 'just' working jobs.
> I feel like so many in the "startup" culture are completely trapped in an imaginary bubble that literally means jack shit to anyone outside it.
Trying to be the best in a field is a mindfuck, whether it's art, sports, industry, politics, or anything else. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a part of that and just living your life. I wish I could will this cursed drive out of me and be content, but I can't.
But you know, live and let live. The degree of contempt in your comment is just shameful.
> You aren't changing the world out there...you're building business.
When you do something that makes a stranger give you an hour of their time, you're changing the world in a very small way. When you do something that makes a billion strangers give you an hour of their time, you're changing the world in a very big way. Many of us won't get to do that, but you can't fault us for giving it an 'ole college try.
Most are unable to keep 100% focus on nothing but their families for even 1/2 of each day. Startup founders focus on their families less than many in other professions, but 3 dedicated hours per day is probably relatively close to average (if anyone has empirical evidence, please share).
As a father of two, you probably know that even when you're not directly thinking of your family, many decisions you make will be at least partially based on their well-being. So families usually aren't completely neglected in the time that they are not the main focus.
My father worked full-time with a one hour commute each way. I'd see him in the mornings, evenings, weekends, and holidays. While I spent less time with him than some of my friends did with their parents, I couldn't have loved, respected, and appreciated him more. In the time he spent with us, his actions showed how much he cared for us. I would argue that more family time with less consideration is worse than better care and demonstration of unconditional love within a smaller period.
Also, something I didn't really give the author credit for - is the potential that the time spent with the kids and wife is REAL quality time. Being totally "present" with your family for 2-3 hours can be 100% more than being half-assed for 24 hours a day. (I think that's sort of what you meant when referring to your dad?)
Wait a minute - 5:30 to 8:30 PM is about as much time as any working parent gets to spend with their kids on a weekday. Little kids go to bed by 8:30 PM!
I am in a similar position to the author, only with a small business in place of a startup, and my lifestyle is hardly different. If you have a day job and a young child, you are typically not going to see your child weekdays outside of 7-8am and 6-8pm.
This would be a normal situation for almost everyone in a 9-5ish job and with a commute.
I feel like so many in the "startup" culture are completely trapped in an imaginary bubble that literally means jack shit to anyone outside it.
You aren't changing the world out there...you're building business.
You are a father and a husband making a conscious adult decision to put work over your family...writing this little "how-to" article does not somehow make you immune to that reality. Venting your elitist self-serving views to the general public does not make you any less irresponsible, much less some sort of "leader".
"From 5:30pm-8:30pm, I’m not a startup CEO. I’m a dad." <- That statement right there pretty much illustrates my point.
No amount of money will ever replace what you're missing out on at home - I guess you'll have to figure that out on your own though. Hopefully your wife and children will give you back the same 1/8th of their time and focus that you give them.