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> there is no invasion. Just a special ops kidnapping

When one nation’s military illegally enters another nation’s sovereign territory to carry out military actions, that’s usually called an invasion.



Not really - an invasion implies holding ground, which isn't the case here.


Ah, the time-honored tradition on the Internet of making up one’s own definition and confidently asserting that everyone who disagrees is wrong.

Of course everyone knows it’s trivial for police to apprehend home invaders because invasion implies that they stay after they break in.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

>> In geopolitics, an invasion typically refers to a military offensive in which a polity sends combatants, usually in large numbers, to forcefully enter the territory of another polity,[1] with either side possibly being supported by one or more allies. While strategic goals for an invasion can be numerous and complex in nature, the foremost tactical objective normally involves militarily occupying part or all of the invaded polity's territory. Today, if a polity conducts an invasion without having been attacked by their opponent beforehand, it is widely considered to constitute an international crime and condemned as an act of aggression.


That definition includes what happened here. Drop all the optional conditions (“usually large numbers”, “possibly being supported”) and the core statement becomes:

“an invasion typically refers to a military offensive in which a polity sends combatants to forcefully enter the territory of another polity”


Can you at least appreciate the irony of someone using their own definition that disagrees with yours, you arguing against their using their own definition, and then there being another widely-cited definition that disagrees with your own, which you also argue against?


I’m not arguing against the Wikipedia definition because it does not disagree with mine. It says “usually in large numbers”, aka not necessarily large numbers. It says goals are complex but “normally involves militarily occupying”, aka not necessarily occupying.


If you have to spend that many words explaining how it doesn't disagree with you, it disagrees with you.


You'd make an awful lawyer with that mentality.

Anyways, Trump removed all ambiguiti today saying the US is gonna run Venezuela. It invaded and took over.


You chose a definition that is not concise and then selectively misread it.

I don’t know how to politely say that your misreading is why I needed so many words.


"Selectively misread" it? What are we calling having to deemphasize key components then? "Discriminately highlighting"?


Probably we can distinguish between military invasion, and the use (arguably miss use) of the word colloquially in the US for home intruders.

Per the Cambridge Dictionary: "an occasion when an army or country uses force to enter and take control of another country"

In our case no 'taking control' has occurred, so this is not an invasion.


I'm sure that whoever follows up Maduro will be completely confident in the fact that they will be able to set policy free of foreign influence.


Well, absent further interventions - possibly even a real invasion! - there is no reason for the current regime in Venezuela to change its policy very much (aside from beefing up its air defense maybe)


They've already been threatened to play ball: "While it is conceivable that Rodríguez has agreed to co-operate with the Trump administration to save her own skin – Trump said the US was prepared carry out a second wave of strikes if necessary – she will not be seen as someone willing to implement change."


Ukraine will be happy to hear that they haven't been invaded.


“We are going to run the country” - Trump

Clearly the US administration believes they have taken control.


This is also the man who said that he could solve all of the problems in Ukraine in a one hour phone call.

We cannot discount an assertion that this administration is expressing faith based upon falsehoods, as they have done before.


Intent is 90% of the law. We still call someone a murderer even if their attempt failed. And today there were action behind the words. I don't see any reason to argue this is anything but an invasion.


lets see how well they stay on control, and keep US oil companies out, and maintain their friendships with russia and china.


Trump just said US will run Venezuela.


"or else"...


I would not agree. Intelligence operatives are often in place for long durations in hostile sovereign territory, and some were likely used in this event. Their presence is not an invasion.

Air operations also are not seen as invasions, and the recent stealth strikes by the U.S. in Iran are not seen this way.

It appears to me that armed troops in place that are taking and holding territory for a prolonged duration are the definition.

The dictionary definition below is "the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invasion

Is Maduro and his wife "plunder?" That would stretch this meaning, I think.


> Is Maduro and his wife "plunder?" That would stretch this meaning, I think.

Sure. But “We are going to run the country” sounds an awful lot like “conquest”.


When a standing army is involved, then we will all agree that it is an invasion.

If it comes by financial aid to the elected president and oil deals to rehabilitate PDVSA, then it is not.


Okay but you chose to point to the Mirriam-Webster definition that doesn’t say anything about a standing army or holding territory.

"the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder."

We sent in an army for conquest but now you don’t like that definition anymore.


What exactly was the object of conquest?

"something conquered, especially : territory appropriated in war"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conquest

Is this Maduro and his wife?

The object of conquest remains to be seen, and if a standing army is used to achieve it.


We have the president of the United States, who ordered the assault, saying openly that “we are going to run the country” and you ask what the object of conquest was?


It has to be taken and held by a standing army.

While that may come to pass, I think today we should call what has happened an "extra-judicial kidnapping" for the purposes of federal prosecution.

That is frightening enough.

Edit: if the Maduro kidnapping is an invasion, then it follows that the Eichmann kidnapping was likewise.

https://www.annefrank.org/en/timeline/136/israel-kidnaps-ado...


> It has to be taken and held by a standing army

This is just making stuff up. None of the definitions offered up here posit this requirement aside from the one apparently in your head.

The United States sent ground troops into another country to depose its leader and install a government that will bend to United States demands. The president of the United States and his advisors have openly stated that this was done to take over the other country and extract money. This is an invasion by any reasonable definition, including the ones that have been shared here.

> Edit: if the Maduro kidnapping is an invasion, then it follows that the Eichmann kidnapping was likewise.

Was Eichmann the leader of Argentina? Did this action effect a systemic change in the government of Argentina or give Israel power or access to Argentinian resources?


Let's pretend that the International Criminal Court were to apprehend Donald Trump and take him to the Hague for trial today over this event.

His claims to control the country and its resources would be inadmissible as charges, because they have not happened. They would be admissible to establish intent, but that would lead to lesser charges.

While I realize that the lower limit of a legal definition of the events of the last twenty-four hours is in the thoughts of very few, no overt actions of force have been taken as yet to obtain those goals.

That lower limit is extra-judicial kidnapping.

Edit: if someone involved in an assault says the words "I want to kill you," then that can establish intent and trigger, among other things, a restraining order, or perhaps elevate the charge to aggravated assault.

The words themselves cannot be used to prosecute for murder.

In the same way, there are many ways that nations inflict violence upon one another, and I think "invasion" is premature, but certainly possible.

However, none but Maduro and his wife were taken, so perhaps the force of arms will be judged sufficient.


> His claims to control the country and its resources would be inadmissible as charges, because they have not happened.

I fail to see the relevance of this tangent. You haven’t even specified what the hypothetical inadmissible charges would be.

It seems like you are trying to say that an unsuccessful invasion should not count as an invasion, which is absurd. If Canada sent 100k troops to DC to take over America but they were all promptly killed, would that not count as an invasion?


Axios has a new article with information that is germane.

'...no U.S. troops would be on the ground "if the vice president does what we want..."'

'[Rodriguez] also left the door open to a dialogue with the Trump administration, calling for "respectful relations," according to the Associated Press.'

https://www.axios.com/2026/01/03/trump-maduro-venezuela-delc...

My hope is that the use of the word "invasion" is premature. I fear that it will come to pass.


You're pointing to an article with the US threatening to do it again, and you're still trying to argue this isn't an invasion?

The semantics are cute for technical documents. But please get some perspective. Buildings and destroyed and innocent lives lost. I don't care what you call it, it's bad.


Your argument is almost as bad as your vocabulary.


Trump is on fucking television saying "this is going to make us a lot of money."




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