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Yes, you could. It's indeed troubling to see this mindset on HN. We have an overflow of professional "explainers" these days, we need more doers and fighters.


Oh whatever :P Don’t be condescending about a mindset you don’t experience yourself.

I ran debian as my daily driver for like half my life; now I’m on mac and never have to worry about my friggin wifi driver.


You can both use macs and criticize Apple to be and do better. Why would they change for no reason? I've heard this myth about companies listening to customers :)


It's been many years since I had my last driver issue. I find that impressive considering how many different platforms Linux has to run on.

Have you noticed how bad the Docker experience is on Macs though, after how many years?


Not sure how that’s the fault of MacOS


Whose fault is it? Also, as opposite to the Linux wifi driver?


I have never had an issue with WiFi drivers as an Arch and EndeavourOS user for 6 years now. And for the last 3 years my Framework Laptop does just work as my daily driver.

I think it is unjust to share strong opinions about previous issues that Linux distributions had without recent evidence.


That’s fair :) Guess I’m just scarred.


I haven't had a problem with my Wi-Fi in Linux since 2006, what are you on about?


Congrats? I've personally experienced driver issues on my laptop and desktop, both from the hardware being too new for the kernel (or at least the version being used by that distro), within the past two years. And this is LMDE, not some fringe one-man fork.


If we want to pile anecdotes, it just works for me as well. The most recent driver problem I had was Windows, needed to preload something during the installer to get it to recognise hard drives in proxmox working if I remember correctly, and that's not even speaking of printer problems on Windows compared to the seamless integration they now seem to have on Debian (or is my desktop environment responsible for that? Not sure, I'm not super deep into Linux stuff)


Yeah, I'm running PopOS woth minimal issues and have been doing so for 5 years. The only issues I have is that they built it on a jank stack of Gnome, but they're fixing that at this moment.

It sounds like a lot of the "I used to use Linux, but nothing worked" crowd are either previous Arch-users (no shit you had to do everything manually) or older folks.


You're squarely in the minority, mate.


Nah he's not. Stuff has been pretty stable, impressively so. Especially if you keep to certain hardware options which Apple users also accept.


If you want to do and fight, use Linux. Apple made their intentions clear decades ago.


Better than voting with your wallet is voting with your vote and getting regulations in place.


You state that as if it is fact despite there being no evidence to support that viewpoint.


Emphasizing voting with your wallet means those with the most money dictate how things work. Google and Apple vote with their wallet all the time. When they’re buying competitors, buying preferential treatment for each other, and buying law makers and regulators.

We aren’t going to out bid them on any of these things. We have to make it illegal, and vote in people who will enforce the laws.


Is not the EU's regulations largely successful? Some have underestimated maliscious compliance, but for most.


It depends on how you define success; the EU has certainly managed to achieve a great deal of standardization and compliance, at the cost of rate of progress and business model innovation. You might think this is a worthwhile trade off, but people differ in their priorities.


Fewer deaths, higher quality of life, more job security. Seems like for the average person, the trade off is well worth it.


> business model innovation

The OpenAI grift, the Facebook & Google stalking advertising, the Uber “independent contractors”, and the Amazon two-for of workers pissing in bottles and squeezing your suppliers so prices rise everywhere.

Yes, what a loss for the EU.


> at the cost of rate of progress and business model innovation

That's a pretty massive claim. Do you have any examples of this?


Their entire tech sector compared to the US or China


Goodness, how specific.


If you want a more specific example, it's the company we're already talking about. There's no EU parallel to Apple, or the other FANG.


SAP, NXP, ASML, Hexagon, Infineon... These are all companies guaranteed to be touching hardware or software, they you use today, and will use tomorrow.


Biggest market cap out of those is SAP at $333B, which is less than the least valuable FAANG company Netflix.


We were talking innovation, not market cap, right?

If the software you use today, that the businesses you go to, even in the US, are using it, then there's hardly stagnation, is there?


I drink milk every day, but there's no innovation there


You jest, but milk production in Europe is far more sophisticated than in the US. Innovation has occurred there [0]. There's no stagnation, despite being a heavily regulated industry. There are new products coming to market, the market is growing at a predictable and fairly decent rate.

And if you need market cap to understand these areas, both Nestle (France) and Lactalis (Switzerland), outpace the entirety of the US industry.

The average person probably thinks that their phone, or websites, show no innovation, despite the rapidly changing underlying technologies.

[0] https://www.ahfesproject.com/app/uploads/2022/04/AHFES-A6.2_...


He is conflating progress and business model innovation with profits. That since the US allows its corporations to get repugnantly large and wealthy, enough to rival many developed nations' GDPs, the US necessarily has more progress and business model innovation. It's just American exceptionalism.


Citations needed. The DSA never applied to a single EU company and GDPR is the bare minimum on user privacy.

And by the time the EU attempted any of those, we already had the duopoly and the competition was already dead.


Please don't "source?" this, it's just a viewpoint.


We’re in agreement that it is a viewpoint. I think it’s bad for productive conversation to state viewpoints as absolute facts that everyone else holds.


Then I'm guilty of this too.


Sure, but I hope you recognize that it is possible to do two things at once.

Corporations have pressure points and there are a myriad of ways to contribute to the overall progress that each one wants to see for themselves.


The "hackers" grew up and made money. Don't rock the boat!


If you want an alternative, android exists. I actively want a tightly integrated system that I know works well together. I don’t want to worry “does this device really work with this other device, even if it says it’s compatible” which was a constant source of issues I had on Android.

Your desire for Apple to become an open system removes my choice to opt into a closed ecosystem, when you already have an open ecosystem to play in.


>I actively want a tightly integrated system that I know works well together. I don’t want to worry “does this device really work with this other device, even if it says it’s compatible” which was a constant source of issues I had on Android.

Yeah, I mean Linux is an abject failure, nothing ever works or runs on it. Nobody needs open data formats or open protocols for interoperability. Binary blobs for the win! /s

>Your desire for Apple to become an open system removes my choice to opt into a closed ecosystem, when you already have an open ecosystem to play in.

Don't worry, it's easy to lock down any open system and we can give you that should you desire it.


I don’t think this comment is in good faith. I gave you a reasonable viewpoint and you just dunked on me with snark.

>, I mean Linux is an abject failure, nothing ever works or runs on it. Nobody needs open data formats or open protocols for interoperability. Binary blobs for the win! /s

I didn’t say anything of the sort. I said I actively choose a “more closed” ecosystem. Linux has similar problems IMO - “I want to buy a GPU” shouldn’t come with trying to figure out whether the device drivers will actually work, to me. If you want that, you have that choice.

> Don't worry, it's easy to lock down any open system and we can give you that should you desire it.

Only within the constraints of what you want which is that everything should adhere to a standard and be interoperable. Which, again, as I said you can have on android. Go buy a pixel phone, and a samsung watch and see how good the experience is.

I’ll say this again - there are open ecosystem alternatives for you out there, in android. Some people, even technical people, are ok with a smaller ecosystem knowing that there is lock in. If you don’t want that, don’t use it. But if you push your choices on me, you restrict my options and remove my preferred platform to have one more platform you want


You have your own viewpoint, and are assuming its "resonable" and so by definition I'm "unreasonable" is GOOD FAITH? No thanks, no interest in engaging with you.


No I think you’re being unreasonable by making strawman arguments against me and using those strawmen to attack my character, which you’ve done again here.




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