Can you be more specific? I never used WhatsApp.

- app to interface with my bank's systems

Why do you need app for that?

my landlord, teachers, parents of my kids classmates, colleagues at work, even government institutions or some family. whatever they use, i have to use. no choice. be it whatsapp, wechat or something else. they make the rules, and they could not care less if i join them or not. but if i don't it's my loss, not theirs.

-app to interface with my bank's systems

my bank requires an app (either mobile or windows) to approve any transfer, and login to the webinterface.

That is premise to give companies and governments control over everything. If collectivism is more valued to you than right for privacy, nothing stop them to steal all of you data piece by piece.

If someone really care about being in touch with you, they listen.

I never used app for verification of bank transaction. Smartphone is not condition to run their business.

that goes both ways. if i care to be in touch with them, i need to listen. the groups of people i mentioned don't care to be in touch with me. but i depend on being in contact with them. therefore i have to be the one to listen. the alternative is isolation. there is no other way. i have been there. i would not be able to travel around the world as i do now, if i stuck with that attitude.

for example my current landlord lives in a different country, that means i use his chat app or expensive international SMS or phonecalls, which would result in much more difficult communication.

teachers share photos from their activities only on whatsapp/wechat. they will reach me in other ways for important stuff, and in fact the directors of one school told me that they hate it too, but many parents are only reachable that way, so the parents force the school which would end up forcing me, at least if i want to get the photos and casual information, and not just communicate for emergencies. by insisting on a different way i would be the only one that everyone else has to make an exception for. and for many that means they would rather not bother.

also in many cases people do care about me but do not have the technical capacity to understand different communication tools. they barely can use wechat or whatsapp. and on top of that in china all good alternatives are blocked anyways. many matrix servers, for example. the only workable alternative would be deltachat because it works with email. but only if i get them to install the deltachat client, because most people read their regular emails only once a day or even less frequently.

in any group the choice is usually forced by the majority. and it would take a lot of energy to explain and convince everyone to change their preference. i do have more important things to worry about.

Required communication with your landlord via chat app is a part of lease contract?

also in many cases people do care about me but do not have the technical capacity to understand different communication tools

I was able to convince my closest family to use matrix. Sure, it require some teaching and maintaining but it is up to you. If you care, you can manage it.

i am not in the EU. and even there, i probably would have. it's a group for all the parents so i don't see the problem there, and even if there wasn't such a group, the teachers could send pictures privately to each parent. but not per SMS.

Required communication

there is required communication, and there is convenient communication. convenient communication helps keep the mood more friendly. also, you didn't read, international SMS and calls are expensive. and i am travelling a lot. i am not reachable under my home number all of the time, so i would have to tell my landlord my new number every time it changes because i am in a different country. (forget roaming. the cost for that is atrocious)

matrix

i use matrix. the experience is horrible. at least if you are trying to use encrypted chat. half the time it breaks. the key management is way to complex for a normal person. i have a technical friend who switched to matrix because of me. he threw it away in disgust when our chat broke for the third time. he got me to switch to signal (which now fortunately allows me to hide my phonenumber, so it became an acceptable option.)

compared to IRC, xmpp/jabber and deltachat, matrix has the worst usability among FOSS tools. i don't have the patience for the amount of teaching i would have to do, especially as it would all have to be remote. i live on a different continent from the rest of my family.

Yes. I am from Brazil. Everyone in Brazil uses WhatsApp. Over 90% of brazilians have WhatsApp installed. It's news here when the WhatsApp messages of government employees and politicians are leaked. There is no such thing as a phone number anymore, people ask you for your WhatsApp. They even shorten it to "zap", as in "what's your zap?". Phone numbers are just a thing you need to have a WhatsApp. If you do not have a WhatsApp, you're just not going to communicate with people. There's just too much friction for it to happen efficiently.

I have Signal and Matrix installed. Zero people use it to message me. Everyone who ever sent me a message through Signal went back to messaging me over WhatsApp shortly afterwards because that's where all of their other contacts are and there's just less friction that way.

It is what it is.

> Why do you need app for that?

Because the banks want to do things like prevent fraud and money laundering, and apps let them do things like "verify device integrity" as well as suck up as much identifying information about you as possible, letting them know that it's really you and therefore that the transactions you are trying to do are legitimate and shouldn't get blocked.

Here in Brazil I have to go to a bank agency and have them "authorize" specific devices. I'm not kidding. It actually used to be worse. We used to have "bank security plugins" for browsers which were basically rootkits and you could not log into a bank's website without these things installed. Many years ago I poked at one of those things and caught it intercepting every network connection. There's a package for one of these "modules" in the Arch Linux AUR right now. Who the hell knows what that thing does.

Personally I think they should just suck it up and eat the losses. Fraud and money laundering do not justify the sacrifice of our computing freedom. I literally do not care if they're losing billions of dollars, just write it off as a business expense or something. But compared to banks I am poor and powerless so all I can do is try to convince others that I'm right, thereby spreading my ideas.

If you resign from your right of privacy and excuse it with collectivism, nothing stop companies and governments to steal everything from you piece by piece.

For verification of bank transaction, I never used any app. Banks business is not built on smartphones and apps. Its not condition for using their services. If so, I would quickly find competition.