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As someone that started with 8 and 16 bit computers, I am fine with single purpose computers.

Instead of giving money to Microsoft or Apple, support OEMs producing hardware with Linux pre-installed like Tuxedo and System 76.



That is not the point. The point is by employing dark patterns, Microsoft makes it progressively more difficult for normal users to switch away from Microsoft.

Want to switch default browser? Adding yet one more step to stop you.

Want to boot other operating system? Now you have to go to UEFI setup and change boot settings.

etc.


It is the point, it is like arguing to switch away from Spectrum, C64, Atari, Amiga, Acorn,.... back in the day.

PC only got out of control, because Compaq was clever on their reverse engineering process, and IBM failed to uphold their ownership.


Want to run Linux? Why go through the hassle of some Linux OEM when you can just keep Windows and run WSL?


This is exactly my problem with all of this. Microsoft makes a way to run Linux desktop programs on Windows, meaning that they DO care about the market share that _desktop_ Linux represents. At the same time, they make steps to make running actual desktop Linux OSes as inconvenient as possible, which incidentally makes WSL appear more and more convenient every time.

At this point, the simplest explanation is malice.


Well yes. Strategically, it makes all kinds of sense for them to force people who want to run Linux into their walled garden. Sure, you can run Linux, as long as it's safely contained inside Windows, an approved version, and preferably running something that requires Windows above you (e.g. DirectX inside WSL being a thin shim).

However, what makes sense for Microsoft may not be in our best interest.


It always was. There wasn't a day in the history of Microsoft that they were aiming for a level playingfield.


What they care about is the market share of the developers that buy Apple devices to develop UNIX applications, and couldn't care less about Linux itself, and are now not happy with the direction macOS is going.

WSL focus on Linux, because the Linux kernel ABI is the new POSIX.


This is correct of course but we can't ignore that Windows computer are ubiquitous nowadays. Alternatives like Tuxedo or System76 are either pricier or are missing options such as keyboard layouts, delivery to non US/CAN/AUS and European countries, world wide support (in your language). Also, people just know Windows. Those issues might go away in time but there's non-zero friction to acquiring Linux hardware imo.


As a former system-76 owner: it just sucks they are such low quality. All plastic, worse thermals then a 2018 mac book. Couldn't even decode a 720p youtube video without burning up. System 76 just rebrands some shitty chinese laptops and you notice.

I tried not giving money to apple, but it was money wasted tbh. Like seriously, $2k for a barely useable laptop.


> System 76 just rebrands some shitty chinese laptops and you notice.

This is manifestly not the case. Perhaps in the very early days but not in the last several years.


I thought they are still using rebranded Clevo laptops in their current product line? Not that it's inherently a bad thing, just curious to know.


They work with Clevo to develop them[3], and make the hardware work with Linux[0], preferably in firmware (so you don't generally need the System76 driver). They also set them up with CoreBoot and open source EC[1].

Although Clevo can sell their own version of the hardware, it is not really the same[2]

[0] Based on my experience. I ordered a laptop a long time ago and they explained they were working with Clevo to get the firmware fixed so that suspending worked reliably. This is before the OpenBoot + EC stuff came about.

[1] https://support.system76.com/articles/open-firmware-systems/

[2] https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322954964549824512

[3] Clevo is System76's ODM. Most OEMs (e.g. Dell, HP) work with ODMs to put together the final product the OEM then offers. I posted the public Dell ODM list in another thread. System76 wanted to bring laptops in-house; I don't know the status on that. But System76 and Clevo work together to offer the final laptop based in a Clevo base[4]. And now (like, in the last 4 years) System76 started also adding open source firmware in some places.

[4] https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322960532303872000


So basically helping making macOS more relevant than GNU/Linux on the desktop.


>As someone that started with 8 and 16 bit computers, I am fine with single purpose computers.

I'm also okay with single-purpose computers. Like the computer in the thermostat that controls the boiler, or the timer for the sprinklers. An OS-locked computer is still a general-purpose device, and describing it as "single purpose" muddies the waters.

> Instead of giving money to Microsoft or Apple, support OEMs producing hardware with Linux pre-installed like Tuxedo and System 76.

Why is this an "XOR" instead of "AND"? I prefer purchasing from OEMs that provide pre-installed Linux, AND I find it morally repugnant when manufacturers assert ownership over a device after having sold it.


> As someone that started with 8 and 16 bit computers, I am fine with single purpose computers.

No one should complain about regressing 30 or 40 years?


Given that most people using GNU/Linux praise using it as if it was UNIX V6, that shouldn't be an issue.


The wider problem is that, as long as Microsoft is superdominant in the PC market, Linux OEMs will still be affected by Microsoft's decrees, because they don't (yet?) have the influence of Apple to get fully custom hardware.


How could they when places like FOSDEM are full of people carrying Apple laptops.




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