Regarding the problem discussed in the article, the Dell could easily cost $3,000, and the problem would not exist a $1000 MacBook, even an Intel one.

In this case, I think it’s Apple’s proper prioritization of features. Probably also that Apple is able to do this because they don’t have to work on dozens of different models at the same time.

It’s amazing to me that no major PC manufacturers have really done this yet.

Don't get me wrong, the Windows laptops I've used had their own list of things too.

The MBP from my perspective is just more of the same. Not better, not worse, but different.

I had the exact overheating in a bag problem described here with my 2012 15" MBP within days of buying it. It had all sorts of sleep problems for a very long time.

The problem discussed in the article happens for MacBooks too

Background tasks on Mac laptops can create a similar problem, but they are largely software created, and rarely out-of-the-box scenarios. Enterprise security tools like endpoint protection scanners and VPN clients made available for Mac but seemingly built in a different power state mentality have been shown to interrupt sleep mode and drain battery. I've also heard mixed reports of different generations behaving badly, and I haven't used all of them. In college my MBP lived in my backpack. You finish a class, close the lid watch the light change and away you go. Nothing will wake it until you open it.

Now with enterprise scanning tools running for "security" they check in daily or hourly to look for new threat signatures or what have you, no matter the power state, no matter the network state, no matter if its in a bag. Likely because the bulk of the tool was just ported from a world where you turn it off or the computer isn't off.

Source? I've been putting my 2017 MBP in a bag daily for 4+ years now and never had this issue.

I'm along-term Mac laptop user, and your experience doesn't track to mine at all.

I've never had one of mine get hot in a bag. Wake from sleep is nearly instant, and always has been.

I will cop to hearing the fans more often since I switched to running two 4K screens with it, but I'm not sore about that.

But I didn't list either of those issues? Are you replying to the correct person?

> I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used.

The whole post is about Dell XPS laptops not being able to be used in a bag so when you said "it's as shitty" we could assume you were also talking about those issues.

Only if you're assuming Windows laptops all have the same issues. In my experience, they're all different.

Posted in another comment thread, but my MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) has been awesome! No issues, no repairs or replacements and still going strong.

Maybe I got lucky but I really hope my next machine (probably going to buy the next 16" pro) will last as long.

I'm still dailying a 2015 MacBook Pro and I've literally only started considering upgrading in the next year or so. Apple have their faults, but the hardware isn't bad at all in my opinion.

That's the pre-2016 MBP life. Still very happy with mine from 2013. The new M1-based ones are probably going to be good again, just in time for an upgrade, but we'll see.

I have the same laptop, it works pretty decently. However: YOU WILL NOT HAVE MACOS MONTEREY, because Apple decided seven years is enough.

Manufactured obsolescence.

I don’t think 7 years of major OS upgrades and support is really a good example of planned obsolescence…

Why not?

Windows 7 for example had a support lifetime of about 10 years. Any red hat release has a support lifetime of 10 years plus another 3 or 4 years of extended support for releases since 2010.

I agree that 7 years is not little, but it is not much either.

Well this is not really comparing equivalents.

Apple too has a good track record of releasing security updates for versions of OSX that will run on 10 year old hardware, regardless of whether you can update that hardware to the latest OS.

Many PC OEMs completely abandon security updates for drivers and firmware when their systems go out of warranty, if not immediately after they're discontinued. I had this issue with my last Thinkpad which was less than 2 years old.

You’re comparing software and hardware. I can comfortably say that most stock 7 year old laptops would not do well running Windows 10.

But more to the point, it is a true rarity to find manufacturers that provide support that far out for their devices. If we’re bemoaning planned obsolescence, Apple is not the poster boy for it (in my opinion)

Luckily I didn't say planned obsolescence, I said manufactured - because that's precisely what it is, Apple is well known for this type of behavior. Introduce candy, don't allow old hardware to run it, pretend like it's a hardware issue. Problem is, they do this for features that demonstrably don't require better hardware, such as the animations in the weather app for the iPhone.

It's very obvious what it's about, make "old" hardware feel outdated and force the customer's hand.

I mean, again, 7 years is a long enough timeline that I can’t really feel any negative opinions here. And “force” is much less relevant if we’re discussing what you call “candy.” Apple still pushes security updates for old macOS versions, so obsolescence isn’t even the right word to use, right?

Inducements to buy new hardware is a company’s life blood, and the methodology you’ve outlined seems like the tamest way to do so.

If you went back in time to the sixties and said you spent several months disposable income on an electronic device that you only expect to work for a couple of years with zero ability to repair, they would think you were mad.

The current scheme is designed to extract our disposable income as much as possible. You are given a trivially better deal by Apple, but it’s still very much a raw deal.

Can you really choose not to have a smartphone? No. It’s a necessity of modern life just as a car is for many. This tilts the balance in favor of the manufacturer, you’ll buy one anyway.

I'm sure that's part of the reason they've decided to make their own CPUs. My 2020 M1 has thermals similar to my iPhone.

I have had all the same issues with intel macs. My M1 macbook pro fixed every single one of those issues. It feels like a laptop with a nuclear reactor for a battery that creates absolutely no heat.

My husband always had the same problem with his Macbook Pro. Slow, unresponsive and loud as hell under any light load.

Things are a bit better now that he bought an iMac, but for that price I could have assembled 2 excellent desktop PCs with a good screen.

Same thing with my MBP from 2018.

I've never had any of that happen with either of my $1000 MacBook Pros, from 2013 and 2017 respectively. Now I just got a 2020 M1 MBP, we'll see how that goes but it seems great so far