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Sure, the most asinine thing (borrowing from Rob Pike) is to have a system where invisible characters define the scope and semantics of what you are writing. Now Helm takes this one step further (and I one beyond that before saying no more to myself and discovering https://cuelang.org) and starts using text interpolation with helpers for managing indentation in this invisibly scoped language. I hacked in imports, but was like, ok, making this worse.

So there's this problem and a number of experiments are going on. One camp has the idea of wrapping data / config in more code. These are your Pulumi and Darklang like systems. Then there is another camp that say you should wrap code in data and move away from programming, recursion, and Turing completeness. This seems like the right way to me for a lot of reasons both technical and haman centric.

I've pivoted my company (https://github.com/hofstadter-io/Hof) to be around and powered by Cue. Of the logical camp, it is by far going to be the best and comes from a very successful lineage. I'm blown away by it like when I found Go and k8s.



Recently migrated my company's k8s product to Cue and it's pure bliss.

Configuration should be data, not code. Cue has just the right amount of expressivity - anything more complex shouldn't be done at the configuration layer, but in the application or a separate operator.


What's the k8s product?

Are you on the newer syntax? #StyleDefs


It's not yet public - it's a new server OS for k8s. Think of CoreOS, but without a traditional userland and fully stateless.

And yes, we're on the newer syntax :-)


Just wanted to clarify that Dark isn't like Pulumi. The idea with Dark is that there is no configuration, just code.


There is still configuration, there has to be, you've just wrapped it so much it's not visible anymore (which is even worse than Pulumi, at least they are using an existing language). You still have to express (and write) the same information...

Darklang is solidly in the Pulumi camp, that's where outsiders put it. (I have seen the insides without beta / your demo, someone with a beta account showed me around a bit)

The real problem with Darklang is they have their own custom language and IDE. What exactly are you trying to solve?




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