Before some western-media starts their well known statement like "India is a poor country and they need to focus on their healthcare, education etc before wasting money on Space projects like this".
They need to examine themselves, "Have we ever said above statement when our country lobbying for multi-million/billion dollar defence deals from India?"
You could just adopt that statement to our western problems. "We should focus on depression, loneliness and providing for veterans before wasting money on space projects like this".
GPS was developed by the military for missiles and jets, operated by the Air Force, although the time reference is provided by the US Naval Observatory (as I recall).
The intensely visceral nature of defense tends to motivate some exceptionally creative thinking. Primary research may have been done a long time ago, but early applications are often first recognized and funded by the DoD.
The Hubble is essentially a Keyhole satellite turned 180 degrees.
A non-trivial number of the US weather satellites are in place to secure US ships and aircraft ahead of significant weather events. E.g. the DMSP is operated by the Air Force (1).
The DoD has a $70B research budget and spends over $1B annually on medical research alone.
> Before some western-media starts their well known statement like
This is a straw man. Nobody is saying this except people in India. At least not to any greater frequency than Western space programs are questioned domestically.
You're kidding, right? Here's a sample back from Nov-13 when India launched the Mars orbiter:
This is The Guardian saying: "Such expenditure is, however, controversial, with some questioning whether India, where more than 40% of children are malnourished and half the population have no toilets, can afford the mission."
Here's The Economist hiding it under a thin veneer of appearing to justify the expenditure: "Some launches may be mere vanity projects, but satellites can have real benefits too"
The UK cancelled their space programme immediately after achieving orbit. Seems reasonable to have a view on how other nations are approaching it. Particularly when it's a nation we give hundreds of millions in development aid to.
I skimmed the first link you post - it seems quite balanced, despite your quote, and quotes those who are in favour of it too.
I have no problem with India doing whatever it wants and prioritising certain things above others. I do object to my taxes funding foreign aid to a country that have a well developed nuke program, a big military and a burgeoning space industry. Good for them but not with my money thanks.
Yeah I don't see what that has to do with my comment. I don't want my taxes sent to subsidise their space industry, nuke program or military. Not a big ask really.
True, but aids are used to project soft power and also to get lucrative defense deals with India and which USA did get billions so that tone really is unwarranted
Caring for the defense of your country is a top priority, above even education. Placing a flag on the moon is a much lower priority. If they only have enough money for some of those things, then caring for the defense and health care should be done before spending money on a symbolic flag planting
Actually, the Indian Moon Mission is more than just a moon landing. It'll be the first time that any vehicle lands on the south polar region of the Moon. Find out more here on the scientific objectives for the mission - https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-mission
I don't see landing on the moon in 2019 as quite the same technological feat that it was in 1969, so I doubt that it will abolish any notions about the Indian tech community. If anything, it establishes the notion that India is willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money to increase national pride.
India has to push on all fronts. Increasing momentum in tech advancements is especially important. Focusing only on poverty/water scarcity/culture would be narrow minded.
Besides, I can't imagine how exhilarating it will be for the engineers actually working towards this. I'm sure engineers here will relate with the need to "implement it themselves" when trying to understand or build confidence in a particular area/concept. It does not matter that it has been done before. Why should it just be for acknowledgement from other countries?
>India has to push on all fronts. Increasing momentum in tech advancements is especially important. Focusing only on poverty/water scarcity/culture would be narrow minded.
Why? There's tons to do at that level, and money can be much better invested there (with huge returns even for tech and innovation) than some me-too moon landings.
You get more innovation by getting people out of poverty and into tech school, than by sending some mission on the moon with people starving...
Why is there so much hostility against an achievement that is still pretty rare? How many countries out of all the countries can boast about their space program?
Why does everything have to be so political. People are ready to take a Jab at Modi's govt at every single opportunity.
They are taking a jab at Indian government. They took a jab even when Modi was not in power because the "west" says "India is a poor country and should focus on food security than space program"
It is pure racism? I'm not sure of the exact term.
P.s. I remember such a cartoon when India had asked for some missile technology few decades ago.
It is not about Modi but about general attitude of the west towards India
Having spent considerable time in India, I might argue that running water and sanitation might be a bigger accomplishment than landing on the moon. Much of India is profoundly poor — some of the worst absolute poverty I have ever seen anywhere on Earth. Sending rockets to space seems to be a mission of vanity and pride more than an actual benefit to the Indian people.
The space program proved to be a boon when there was a severe cyclone in the state of Odisha
Entire state was devastated and yet few people lost their lives because they were able to predict the cyclone and take measures for safety.
Your argument has merit, I live in India! But the thing is, if we were a country that starves its poor folk while running behind space program then you are 100% right
But Indian government has typically worked for lifting people out of dire poverty. Just look at standard of living. This Modi govermnet has taken social steps way beyond ex govt. Modi govt has deposited aid money straight in accounts of people. Thus reducing corruption
So India is doing both, sanitation, road and space.
I don't think it's racism, just media-reinforced ignorance, and a disconnect that's normal with such a big geographic disconnect and a rapidly changing country.
This is par for course in all matters cultural. I've been appreciating how little the occident introspects of late.
I'm currently reading Veena Talwar's book "Dowry Murder", which documents how economical legislature driven by colonial greed was more causal in increasing violence against women, as opposed to the favoured theory that this was intrinsic to the "barbaric" natives. Within these pages, you find old war stratagems of "civilizing the barbaric natives" being perfected over the years, as the East India Company acquires a taste for blood after conquering and ruling Bengal. In fact, some of these techniques are so cliched, that you can see similar propaganda ops being pulled for the wars in the Middle East, Vietnam and now China.
This will inspire a generation of Indians. If any country can have a space program, they should. Like Elon Musk says, solving one problem after another is necessary but not sufficient. People need to feel hopeful about the future. The 1969 Moon landings have inspired a whole generation in the West. Despite of the high costs, we are still reaping its benefits. I am a huge fan of all agencies, ISRO, NASA, ESA, CNCA, Roscosmos etc.
> ISRO’s next priority is the $1.4 billion Gaganyaan mission, which aims to put three Indian “gaganauts” -- at least one of which will be a woman -- into orbit.
According to this wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut, they are vyomanauts, coined from the Sanskrit word व्योमन् (vyoman meaning 'sky' or 'space').
The wiki has some interesting terminology as to what spacecraft crew members are called by different space agencies.
Dryden preferred "cosmonaut", on the grounds that flights would occur in the cosmos (near space), while the "astro" prefix suggested flight to the stars.
In English-speaking nations, a professional space traveler is called an astronaut.
NASA applies the term astronaut to any crew member aboard NASA spacecraft bound for Earth orbit or beyond.
By convention, an astronaut employed by the Russian Federal Space Agency (or its Soviet predecessor) is called a cosmonaut in English texts. The word is an anglicisation of the Russian word kosmonavt
Polish uses kosmonauta and astronauta, and the two words are considered synonyms.
In Chinese, Yǔ háng yuán (宇航员, "Space-universe navigating personnel") is used for astronauts and cosmonauts in general, while hángtiān yuán (航天员, "navigating outer space personnel") is used for Chinese astronauts
The term taikonaut is used by some English-language news media organizations for professional space travelers from China.
With the rise of space tourism, NASA and the Russian Federal Space Agency agreed to use the term "spaceflight participant" to distinguish those space travelers from professional astronauts on missions coordinated by those two agencies.
and the Indian Space Research Organisation hope to launch a spacecraft in 2022 that would carry vyomanauts, coined from the Sanskrit word व्योमन् (vyoman meaning 'sky' or 'space').
In Finland, the NASA astronaut Timothy Kopra, a Finnish American, has sometimes been referred to as sisunautti, from the Finnish word sisu.
Tomii Ryūnosuke: The American thinker Buckminster Fuller once called our planet "Spaceship Earth." On the other hand, British scientist James Lovelock stated that our planet was a life form named Gaia. I was always puzzled by the contrast between spaceship and life form. But the British scientist Richard Dawkins helped tie it together. Humans can be considered the Earth's genes. The planet is trying to self-replicate. That is natural behavior for a life form.
Tomii Ryūnosuke: Michael Ende once compared humans to cancer cells, but I believe that humans are germ cells. However, there is the possibility that any of us could become the cancer cell that destroys Earth.
Tomii Ryūnosuke: If we are truly Earth's genes, the purpose of space exploration is because mutation is necessary.
It's indeed "the west" that's in need of advice like this. I'd be a bit weary of neo-colonialist arguments like this as well. There's a sense of entitlement there that is increasingly at odds with the facts.
I think the west might need to wake up to the notion that increasingly China, India and others are running the show according to their own agendas rather than following in the footsteps of the west. A lot of the CEOs of companies like Google, Microsoft, etc. are Indians. Lots of Indians are also active in core industries in the US and the EU. Likewise, lots of Chinese can be found across our industries at all layers and both are primary customers for our best universities. Both have the education, expertise, and economies to produce a moonshot. And neither of them is lacking in ambition. I think it's become more a question of when than if, and sooner rather than later.
Either way, there's a new space race on and I think this is a good thing. We've been stuck not getting back to the moon mostly for budgetary and other non technical reasons. It's about time people go back there.
To be fair, Indians have a long tradition of being the 'sepoys' of the Western civilization - two world wars, a large labour breeding nation, and perhaps the bulwark of the next "opium" war.
"Shooting ahead" == repeating what the west did 50 years ago. Interesting definition of shooting ahead.
The west (as if that's even a coherent body for topics like this) has many problems. Being overtaken by India isn't one of them. So far it's all "we want to do this, we want to do that" - I want to be a billionaire, doesn't make me one. We'll see if they can pull it off.
> I read somewhere that ISRO is able to launch satellites at fraction of a cost as compared to SpaceX.
I didn't say West is lagging behind India or India shooting ahead of the "west"
Our competition is with ourselves and not with others.
Coming to cost of ISRO vs SpaceX
> There is also a big difference in terms of cost per mission. For example, the Falcon 9 launch vehicle’s cost per launch comes up to $62 million, while ISRO’s Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) costs roughly $15 million per launch.
How is this parent comment getting upvotes? Stop spreading false information. This mission was approved in 2008 by the then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh[0].
No its not a move by his govt. This is a multi year effort. But you can be 100% sure that they'll project it as his victory. This is pretty common nowadays.
DARPA tries to solve every challenge, irrespective of the field, by opening contracts to the national public and holding contests among them. The winning solution is often adopted for further enhancement.
That it was done isn't the issue. It's that nobody there acknowledged the problems it created and gave their complete approval. It doesn't bode well for their future attitude toward creating hazardous space junk.
India is very fortunate to attempt this feat* in 21st Century.
1. 1991 USSR Collapse
2. Technology today
3. NASA insufficient funding
4. Globalisation
Visit public-hospital at any sub-district/Taluk or any public-school in a remote village.
I mean, potential is very high but most of it is misplaced. Chandrayaan, Mangalyaan & Gaganyaan are easier today as opposed to improving public health & education.
There's no evidence to prove that diverting funds to social programs instead of silly space missions will benefit the needy in the long run. Rather, investing in science and technology might solve these social problems. See response from NASA scientist to a nun for similar question.
They need to examine themselves, "Have we ever said above statement when our country lobbying for multi-million/billion dollar defence deals from India?"