Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | ursugardaddy's commentslogin

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some weird telemetry tied to this too


It's still a non-zero chance it triggers a no-knock raid by the police that kills your family or pets.

it happens all the time


Non-zero being technically true because of the subject matter, but I don’t see how Apple’s system increases the risk of authorities killing family or pets more than server-side scanning.


> more than server-side scanning

False dichotomy. How about they leave people's data alone?


Their neural hashing is new, and they claim has a one in a trillion collision rate. There are 1.5 trillion images created in the US and something like 100 million photos in the compared database. That's a heck of a lot of collisions. And that's just a single year, Apple will be comparing everyone's back catalog.

A lot of innocent people are going to get caught up in this.


We’ll have to wait and see how good their neural hashing is, but just to clarify the 1 trillion number is the “probability of incorrectly flagging a given account” according to Apple’s white paper.

I think some people think that’s the probability of a picture being incorrectly flagged, which would be more concerning given the 1.5 trillion images created in the US.

Source: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...


From Apple's technical summary:

"The threshold is selected to provide an extremely low (1 in 1 trillion) probability of incorrectly flagging a given account. This is further mitigated by a manual review process wherein Apple reviews each report to confirm there is a match..."

So it's 1 in 1 trillion per account PRIOR to manual review in which the odds of error get reduced even further.


How is it that you are going to "wait and see how good their neural hashing is"? Do you think there is going to be any shred of transparency about the operation of this system? It is completely unaccountable - starting with Apple and going on to NCMEC and the FBI.


I think you're wrong about the risk (the paper says per account), but even so you need to compare it to the alternatives.

Photos in iCloud are unencrypted and Apple checks for CSAM on the unencrypted photos server side, they know of all matches.

OR

Photo hashes are checked client side and only if a certain threshold of matches is passed does Apple get notified at all (at which point there's a sanity check for false positive by a person). This would allow all photos on iCloud to be able to be encrypted e2e.

Both only happen when iCloud photo backup is enabled.

The new method reduces the risk.


large corporations are the least american thing in american society


I'm really not convinced that what we're communicating on isn't already the metaverse


HTML and HTTP are open standards, but they're not the metaverse. The "metaverse" is supposed to be an open standard for interoperable 3D game worlds.

You could build a 3D game world inside of a browser, and people have been doing that since the 90s. We've had multiple different open and proprietary technologies that allow this: VRML, Java applets, 3D Groove SX/GX, Shockwave 3D, Flash Stage3D, WebGL, and WebGPU. However, most game worlds built this way are less like "websites but in 3D" and more like Facebook. Yes, Facebook uses HTML, but it's not part of "the web" - most of it's content requires a login and can't be scraped or searched by external sites.

An actual "metaverse built on the open web" would be possible; in the same way that comment sections, trackbacks, Gravatar, and so on made blogging into a shared space decades ago. You would need standards for a whole bunch of problems unique to 3D game worlds, including presence, chat, avatars, asset inventories, and so on. All of these would have to also be integrated with existing content-management systems (WordPress, Drupal, etc), which would also have to serve up a viewer application that actually handled our "web metaverse" thing (in the same way that browsers don't need to know about comment sections, they just need to know how to submit a form). That in and of itself has significant UX problems: maybe, you go on one particular metaverse site, and suddenly you have entirely different player movement from the last site you were on, because it loaded a different viewer.


A smartphone is not a requirement for life.


Neither is a car or a dishwasher. Yet, they are convenient to have.


Correct. Totally agree. It’s a convenience at most.


Nither is Air Travel. And we had the same arguments after 9/11 about the No Fly List and possible abuses. And the same reassurances.

Guess what?

Everyday people who didn't want to become informants:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/opinion/hu-shamas-no-fly-list...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/supreme-court-case-no-...

https://ccrjustice.org/home/press-center/press-releases/laws...

>The lawsuit is brought on behalf of four American Muslim men with no criminal records who were approached by the FBI in an effort to recruit them as informants. Some of our clients found themselves on the No Fly List after refusing to spy for the FBI, and were then told by the FBI that they could get off the List if they agreed to become informants. Our other clients were approached by the FBI shortly after finding themselves unable to fly and were told that they would be removed from the List if they consented to work for the FBI.

Journalists

https://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/17/watchlist.chertoff/index.h...

>A House representative said Thursday she is requesting an investigation after learning a CNN reporter was put on the federal no-fly list shortly after his investigation of the Transportation Security Administration.

Whistleblowers

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2010-apr-27-la-oe-ra...

https://whistleblower.org/in-the-news/buffalo-news-governmen...

>In my case, I started having trouble flying after I blew the whistle in the case of “American Taliban” John Walker Lindh, the first terrorism prosecution in the United States after Sept. 11. As the Justice Department ethics attorney in that case, I inadvertently learned that my e-mail records had been requested by the court. When I tried to comply, I found that the e-mails, which concluded that the FBI committed an ethics violation during its interrogation of Lindh, had been purged from the file. I managed to recover them from the bowels of my computer archives, gave them to my boss and resigned. I also took home copies in case they “disappeared” again. Eventually, in accordance with the Whistleblower Protection Act, I turned them over to the media when it became evident that the Justice Department withheld them from the court.


I don't know if the 215 supports tethering, but there are feature phones that do paired with a laptop or even something like a steam deck (running linux) is the way to go if you really need mobile internet

you get privacy and freedom from the smartphone-service-based-everything-forever lifesytle, it's nice


well now they can argue everyone in the industry already scans locally on device for illegal content, not a huge step

a few years from now: "it's been such a success we're going to do it everywhere for everything now"


Apple's just really weird when it comes to the control they exert over devices.

they do it with 'privacy' in mind and what they come up with is usually better than the worst case but it can still be pretty iffy

eg. a few months back when their notarization/entitlement verification system was being discussed

it's all just their vision of computing (which has some merits), hyper-controlled, locked down and "safe" it's not going to change if you're not comfortable with it you really shouldn't be using their products


Hate Apple's philosophy personally but I recommend my mom a Mac every single time.

Not everyone needs freedom, she's not downloading fitgirl repacks.


This is a weird mindset. Either you care about privacy or you don’t: what a person does on their device shouldn’t matter. If you only care about privacy when doing illegal things you don’t actually care about privacy you’re just a criminal not wanting to be caught.


Well, do you only wear one while grocery shopping? how much time do you spent outside of your home?


It requires a 'collection' of images to trigger an alert to apple who then has someone manually reviewing the photos before taking further action

there's still our justice system/due-process as well


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: