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Preventing spam is as easy as gatekeeping. We should be bringing it back. Perhaps there should be multiple layers of social media. There’s deeper and deeper level of authenticity as you go deeper into the network


Openssl? Code elegance?


I think they're saying that OpenSSL is NOT elegant, but that it is successful regardless; hence, code elegance is irrelevant to whether a product is successful or not (and thus that horribly ugly LLM-generated code has a shot at becoming successful).


> I'm trying to understand what the criticism is here, because the example seems to support the point that these are meant to be a way of learning the future, not oppose it. I thought the whole point was that yes, people with inside knowledge will bet large sums of money on things they expect to happen, and that's what makes the prediction useful. The market is meant to incentivize people who know things to act on them in a way that makes them known.

Except the paragraph you quoted nullify this benefit

> The suspiciously well-timed bets that one Polymarket user placed right before the capture of Nicolás Maduro

So we learnt nothing. For the entire duration the stock is online, its pretty much 50/50 then suddenly 1 day before, the ticker spikes to yes.


Yes, but it spikes BEFORE the attack begins, which means we learnt someone thought there was a string reason to believe things were about to change earlier than we otherwise would have.

That's the whole point, isn't it?

And if you're going to tell me the paragraph I quoted nullifies what I've said, would you please explain how? Obviously I don't currently understand it the same way you do, and I have asked for help understanding what I'm missing. Saying, "You're missing it," isn't helpful.


Thats the funny part. Its not used as an informational tool


All this is true but mailing lists UI sucks. Please tell me how you navigate a tree of messages? It is not easy to tell who is this responding to and who responds to it. Yes, it can be figured out but why does the tree change as I navigate it? [0]

[0] https://lkml.org/lkml/2024/1/7/103


This is all a matter of the email client. Useful email clients show email threads in trees like this (the red lines and arrows): https://vigasdeep.com/2012/06/07/mutt-the-ultimate-mailing-c...


What if you're not subscribed? I don't usually care about the day to day of Linux kernel dev, but that one thread might be of interest to me. Actually, I might have something to contribute, but since I'm not subscribed the UX on that sucks too.

"Just use mutt" as a reply to "I want to read this one email thread" is rather missing the point. Plus the reality is most people neither use nor want mutt. Many people think the UX on mutt is horrible. Nice if it works for you, but it doesn't for many. So there's that.


There are tools to import mails into whichever email client you prefer, especially if the list is archived on a public-inbox instance, which is the best mailing list archiving system so far.

https://lwn.net/Articles/875239/ https://blog.gnoack.org/post/lei/ https://people.kernel.org/monsieuricon/lore-lei-part-1-getti... https://b4.docs.kernel.org/ https://github.com/mikwielgus/forum-dl


You can't seriously claim that this is good UX. And that's what this is about: not that it's impossible but that the UX is not good, especially for the casual user only interested in the occasional thread.


The web interface for the archive is for casual users and I believe most have clickable link for the subject that lists the email in a thread and a “previous/next in thread” button.

If you’re downloading mbox files, then you know how to handle them.


It depends on your client, if you have one with bad UX, then get a better one.


I bet it wouldn’t be too hard to build a nice UI over a mailing list. You could make it as nice as Slack. Has this been done?


Spent some time on this a few years back and have a half-finished project for it. The thing that proved to be a huge roadblock was importing existing archives since many don't provide a good interface to it.

The https://lore.kernel.org site is actually fairly decent, but limited to Linux kernel stuff and some adjacent projects. Gmane was quite nice too, but now defunct (the web UI anyway).


It hasn't been done, because it's impossible. You might get the first 80%, maybe even the first 90% if you had enough money to hire top designers for several years, but you'll never reach Slack level polish.


To be honest, I had a lot more trouble finding the tree there than understanding what it shows per se.


In hindsight, we should have known this would happen eventually. At this point, we have to be actively be against free services. Every time its just a ticking time bomb. There's literally no incentive for them to be an actual good service, just good enough that you tolerate it and not consider other options, but shit enough that they can extract value out of you.


Yeah agree 100% - this is why I’m a happy kagi customer

It’s kind of cool being treated like a customer

New feature releases aren’t about ad placement or SEO or personalization / tracking

Instead, their product updates are targeted at me - cool nifty features that I can immediately try out

Like kagi or not, just the feeling of having devs care about my actual personal experience is a breath of fresh air

I know not everyone is an fortunate, but I’d happily spend on other software of this caliber


I recently signed up for an annual subscription to Kagi on their Starter plan and I couldn't agree more. Search quality with them has been great so far, and I realize their small web search and exploration features too.

I've been slowly working to find other paid services as alternatives to the free ones that I'm currently using (next big one was shifting away from Gmail and onto a personal domain for mail using Fastmail). Migrated away from Notion and using Obsidian with Syncthing running on my unRAID server at home. Generally just trying to find alternatives that aren't in the data mining and user lock in sphere and more about maintaining a positive user experience without taking advantage of their users and their data.


That’s awesome

Be sure to try the assistant if you haven’t and browse the settings page for all the things you can do, again if you haven’t

It’s my default on my phone through their extension it works well

I’ve contacted their support in the past and they always give me real answers to questions about he product or suggestions

Gl!


This. Please can we go back to the days where I simply pay for services or items instead of being trapped inside a maze of buy now pay later, credits, coupons, bonuses, gifts, tiers, etc

I am sure there have never been such a time, but I long for it anyway.


> At this point, we have to be actively be against free services.

Nah, GCC is free, Linux is free, Debian is free. What we need to be against is free stuff provided by for-profit entities, because the love of money is the root of all evil.


Linux is free as-in freedom. Linux is not zero-cost: it has taken tens of billions of dollars of investment from thousands of organisations over three decades - and countless volunteer hours - to make it what it is today; that the wider community gets Linux security patches and feature updates for free is a side-effect of the GPL license coupled with the low marginal cost of reproducing software once-written. I’m here to remind people that the bulk of Linux’ codebase was not written for free as an act of charity.

What I’m saying is that, hypothetically, if the entire business-world suddenly ditched Linux overnight and went back to IBM and Burrows like it’s the 1960s again again (and let’s pretend Android isn’t a thing either) then no-one would be funding significant Linux dev/eng work, and as much as we value the hacker-spirit of unpaid community/volunteer projects, I feel it isn’t enough to keep Linux viable and secure (especially in high-visibility, high-exposure scenarios like desktops and internet-facing services).


They said service, not software.


Much of Linux is provided by for-profit entities.


Which doesn't matter, precisely because those entities have no ownership over Linux and thus no ability to enshittify the product.


Eh, I heard lots of complaints from the Xen folks that the prevalence of RedHat in the kernel development community leads to double standards that makes their favourite product (KVM) get nicer and quicker reviews than the Xen related changes.

(I used to work with the Xen folks.)


Creating an interactive UI with rapid development is a fundamentally difficult problem. Its no wonder that people spend billions on creating UI (collectively) and I haven't any good ones yet (performant, interactive, efficient).

Why not just drop the requirement altogether? All I want is an internet of links, images and texts? Whats so wrong with Facebook that looks like this website? Just a bunch of links and texts.

I don't give a shit if the button is a square or round. Why do you get to decide what is "best" for me anyway? Let the web be the web and the user decide how to present them.


I have no idea where to ask questions nowadays. Stackoverflow is way "too slow" (Go to website, write a nice well formatted thread, wait for answers). But there's way faster solutions now, namely from message groups.

For example, I was wondering if its okay to move my home directory to a different filesystem altogether and create a symlink from /home/. Where do I ask such questions? The freaking ZFS mailing list? SO? It was just a passerby question, and what I wanted more than the answer is the sense of community.

The only place that I know that have a wide enough range of interest, with many people that each know some of these stuff quite deep, is public, is easily accessible is unironically 4chan /g/.

I would rather go there then Discord where humanity's knowledge will be piped to /dev/null.


Reddit was a place until the API changes were made. Discord is another at the cost of public discoverability. Barring that, man pages and groking the sources.


I guess I'm out of the loop. What does "/g/" mean?


It's the technology message board on 4chan, each board has a name like that. /a/ for anime, /v/ for video games, etc.


I think ZSTD is also like this.


Lets be honest, the world needs these unpaid labors for it to properly function. Had he not have them the past few decades, we would be living in proprietary hell and productivity would drop significantly.

The way I see OSS funding situation is something like this: My Ferrari is broke so I was languishing on the side of the road when a poor mechanic with shabby clothes was walking by. He fixed my car and when I asked for a payment, he said "Its all good!". "Oh really!?" I said, as I turn of my voice recorder and drive off into the sunset.

Of course I am completely in the right here, he did say he didn't need any compensation and it was all recorded (or in writing). But I can't help but feel some humanity is missing here.


In my mind this scene ends with the mechanic saying "-Just give me a lift!" over the sound of a rapidly leaving ferrari.


In my experience having worked on some popular OSS projects, the scene actually ends with the Ferrari owner flipping off the mechanic before peeling out and splattering him with mud.


The part you are missing here, is where you have insulated yourself financially and legally; and they don't have the means to.

Maybe they are an undocumented immigrant, but happy to help others. Maybe they think they will be sued by someone with money if they take any money for the job (and create a larger mechanical issue).


The problem with your analogy is the Ferrari. It's a closed system requiring a delicate relationship with the company to acquire.


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