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Didn't think it would cross the uncanny valley for me when it opened the chat by taunting me for being up too late, reading the time digit by digit. Not something a human would do.

But I did feel bad hanging up on it. Him?


> Zig does enhance on C, there is no doubt. I would rather write Zig than C. The design is better, more modern, and the language is safer. But why stop half way? Why fix some problems and ignore the most damaging ones?

I was disappointed when Rust went 1.0. It appeared to be on a good track to dethroning C++ in the domain I work in (video games)... but they locked it a while before figuring out the ergonomics to make it workable for larger teams.

Any language that imbues the entire set of special characters (!#*&<>[]{}(); ...etc) with mystical semantic context is, imo, more interested in making its arcane practitioners feel smart rather than getting good work done.

> I don’t think that simplicity is a good vector of reliable software.

No, but simplicity is often a property of readable, team-scalable, popular, and productive programming languages. C, Python, Go, JavaScript...

Solving for reliability is ultimately up to your top engineers. Rust certainly keeps the barbarians from making a mess in your ivory tower. Because you're paralyzing anyone less technical by choosing it.

> I think my adventure with Zig stops here.

This article is a great critique. I share some concerns about the BDFL's attitudes about input. I remain optimistic that Zig is a long way from 1.0 and am hoping that when Andrew accomplishes his shorter-term goals, maybe he'll have more brain space for addressing some feedback constructively.


> It appeared to be on a good track to dethroning C++ in the domain I work in (video games)... but they locked it a while before figuring out the ergonomics to make it workable for larger teams.

There are million-line Rust projects now. Rust is obviously workable for larger teams.

> Any language that imbues the entire set of special characters (!#*&<>[]{}(); ...etc) with mystical semantic context is, imo, more interested in making its arcane practitioners feel smart rather than getting good work done.

C uses every one of those symbols.

I think you're talking about @ and ~ boxes. As I recall, those were removed the same year the iPad and Instagram debuted.


> I think you're talking about @ and ~ boxes. As I recall, those were removed the same year the iPad and Instagram debuted.

Take criticism better.

A language choice on a project means the veterans are indefinitely charged with teaching it to newbies. For all Rust's perks, I judge that it would be a time suck for this reason.

Browsing some random rust game code: [https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/blob/8c7f1b34d3fa52c007b2...] pub fn play<'p>( &mut self, player: &'p mut AnimationPlayer, new_animation: AnimationNodeIndex, transition_duration: Duration, ) -> &'p mut ActiveAnimation {

[https://github.com/bevyengine/bevy/blob/8c7f1b34d3fa52c007b2...] #[derive(Debug, Clone, Resource)] #[cfg_attr(feature = "bevy_reflect", derive(Reflect), reflect(Default, Resource))] pub struct ButtonInput<T: Copy + Eq + Hash + Send + Sync + 'static> { /// A collection of every button that is currently being pressed. pressed: HashSet<T>, ...

Cool. Too many symbols.


That first "random Rust game code" is in fact code I wrote :)

It's the same amount of punctuation as C++, or really any other language with C-like syntax.


I think this criticism is silly. Here's what your first example would look like in a language with keywords (where reasonable, perhaps like C#) instead:

  pub fn play<lifetime p>(in out self, player: mut ref AnimationPlayer lifetime p, new_animation: AnimationNodeIndex, transition_duration: Duration) -> mut ref AnimationPlayer lifetime p
But, this is still confusing! Let's remove even more symbols, and make the syntax more obvious by removing abbreviations:

  PUBLIC FUNCTION Play
  LIFETIMES
    P
  PARAMETERS
    IN OUT Self
  Player AS MUTABLE REFERENCE TO AnimationPlayer WITH LIFETIME P
  NewAnimation AS AnimationNodeIndex
  TransititionDuration AS Duration
  RETURNS MUTABLE REFERENCE TO ActiveAnimation
  BEGIN
  ...
  END
IMO, using keywords instead of symbols for references, lifetimes, etc, would just make Rust overly verbose, and there's a reason BCPL used braces instead of BEGIN/END :^)


> Any language that imbues the entire set of special characters (!#*&<>[]{}(); ...etc) with mystical semantic context is, imo, more interested in making its arcane practitioners feel smart rather than getting good work done.

On that scale COBOL is a better programming language.


> Afterall, it is possible to place an endless thicket of regulations on deliberate human activities, but one can’t simply outlaw wildfires and horrific destruction and loss of life.

Great read, learned a lot.

Also, the web's gotten to where making it a few scrolls down a high signal page without being bombarded by ads makes me start feeling really nice. Maybe point me to a charity at the end as a way to show support & thanks for the work.


Might be interesting, but this tone is nails on a chalkboard to me. Bailed after the third "dear reader"


    document.body.innerHTML = document.body.innerHTML.replace(/,?\s*dear\s*reader,?\s*/gi, ' ');
After that it's much more tolerable. It does leave me wishing it spent more time exploring the differences themselves and less time setting the stage for how it's different though! I want to learn how, what, and why, or what still needs to be done and how it may or may not impact things... not just that someone wrote code and it supposedly went fast in one set of tests.


I personally prefer "dear leader"


I'm sorry to hear that it read like that to you. I was "slightly" inspired by reading "The Tale of Despereaux" to my kid and was trying to capture the tone of the book. :)


Great chat!

Talking about 1D vs 2D data structures felt incomplete without some mention of 3D coding. The only examples I know of are from games - Minecraft's Redstone or the automation genre (Satisfactory, Foundry). I imagine there are neat tools in other domains like mechanical or computer engineering, for solving problems with physical, real world materials in 3D space.

The main challenge in the 3D games is lack of x-ray vision. The frustration of blindness encourages setting up cool POV catwalks to see into your layers, which is rewarding. I assume productivity tools (or a hypothetical 3d code editor) would bring these for free.

A cool place to experiment might be .vox, the voxel modeling format. MagicaVoxel is a pretty fun editor, and I've daydreamed about imbuing blocks with behavior ala Redstone.

I don't think it would be super productive, but it might be fun and satisfying.


Honda and Toyota are still cheap, safe, and dependable.

Our CR-V is such a great value I don't actually understand how they turn a profit.


Beauty is often worth a little extra time. I'd rather walk a beautiful trail than a paved sidewalk beside 6 lanes of fast traffic.

It's cool to choose the tools that appeal to your values. It's not cool to advocate for paving the planet in your quest for single-minded efficiency.


> I'd rather walk a beautiful trail than a paved sidewalk beside 6 lanes of fast traffic.

But would you still prefer it if alternative paved sidewalk is 5 times shorter AND you need to walk between same two points of interest multiple times per day, everyday?


>Beauty is often worth a little extra time. I'd rather walk a beautiful trail than a paved sidewalk beside 6 lanes of fast traffic

Beauty can be expressed with the toggle's design, with the window decoration, with the colors, with the wallpaper, choice of font, and so on.

No need to be expressed with an animation.

If your car did a little "song and dance" everytime you started it up that you had to wait to be able to drive it off, it would get annoying really fast.


Nobody's waiting on a checkbox to finish filling on before moving onto the next.


In this case, not necessarily. It's obviously designed to animate in a particular way. Why? Is it just for kicks, or is there a reason for it to animate as it's moving? Is it going to bounce back half-way through because the system realized you're not allowed to turn that thing on for example? I don't know, so I would wait for it to finish.

I admire the dedication to do this, but I find it superfluous when designing something I need to actually use. Great for a game, not so great for a page of checkbox thingies I need to set to the right values to make something else work correctly. I don't really want it to animate well, I want it to work fast and to be obvious what it does and how it works. It doesn't have to be pretty, unless being pretty helps make it more clear what's what.


Intriguing. My feedback for whoever is writing this, the main site, the github Readme, etc, please put in some work on a clarity/simplification pass.


Likewise. In specific to: >In practice, when used as a data warehouse, SPL does show different performance compared with traditional solutions. For example, in an e-commerce funnel analysis scenario, SPL is nearly 20 times faster than Snowflake even if running on a server with lower configuration; in a computing scenario of NAOC on clustering celestial bodies, the speed of SPL running on a single server is 2000 times faster than that of a cluster composed of a certain top distributed database. There are many similar scenarios, basically, SPL can speed up several times to dozens of times, showing very outstanding performance.

Wow that really sounds amazing? Just wonder how a java based db can out perform Snowflake (a columnar base db). Maybe the original implementation in Snowflake is not optimal? Then again, from personal experience h2 embedded mode significantly faster than plain postgres.


This post(https://blog.scudata.com/a-major-culprit-in-the-slow-running...) explains why java-based SPL can run much faster than the C++-based database. BTW, SPL also support columnar storage, it can implement columnar storage in a single file. And here is a test report https://blog.scudata.com/spl-computing-performance-test-seri.... It sounds amazing, but it is not mysterious. A lot of low complexity algorithms can not be implemented in SQL, programmer can only expect the optimizer of database. howerver ,when SQL is complex, optimizer would get lost.


This post(https://blog.scudata.com/how-the-performance-improvement-by-...) also explains the principle of high speed of SPL, more generally


This is a little difficult for SPL,SPL is a little versatile. For example, it can be used as middleware to solve mixed computing over multiple data sources, Implement hot-swap microservices, Substitute stored procedure, Act as a data warehouse for high performance, As a computing engine for implementing the true lakehouse, accompany with OLTP database to achieve low-risk HTAP, ..., It can even be used as an Excel plugin to help with desktop analysis. Because computing is everywhere! Everyone only cares about their own issues, that's a fraction of what SPL is used for. But we can't predict what people will care when they come to the homepage, we have to list a little bit of everything, so, the home page is somewhat cluttered. Simply skip the items you are not interested in and read the links to the items you are interested in. Thanks very much.


Last I looked it's barely available in the US. A dozen states, maybe.


> Who cares?

...anyone who isn't an ice-cold sociopath? Your job is often a big part of your identity, particularly in the games biz which is so passion driven.

Leaving behind a project you grew, kickass tech you had a hand in, and friends you made is a major life trauma, even if you're doing it voluntarily to chase something new.


I love my work, I have to be reminded to eat because I'm so into what I'm doing, consistently, every day. I don't understand people who say things like "thank gods it's Friday" (why are you spending most of your life doing something you want to get away from?!).

However, it is still just work! It's not my company, it's not my identity, and it gives me no value as a human being. You are not your success. My colleagues are not my friends, though we can hang out and have fun. My accomplishments at work are not my value as a person, though they give me satisfaction.

Work is work, don't buy what they're selling, and put down the cool-aid.


> ...anyone who isn't an ice-cold sociopath? Your job is often a big part of your identity, particularly in the games biz which is so passion driven.

I'd argue this is unhealthy and a recipe for disaster. But different things work for different folks.

> Leaving behind a project you grew, kickass tech you had a hand in, and friends you made is a major life trauma, even if you're doing it voluntarily to chase something new.

There's kickass people at most good companies. The idea you can't make work friends & work on cool stuff unless at your current job in your current role seems limiting.


> The idea you can't make work friends & work on cool stuff unless at your current job in your current role seems limiting.

I never said that. If you work on cool stuff with great people it is healthy to reflect on the pain and loss of that chapter ending. Yes, "there are more fish in the sea." Heartbreak is still heartbreak.


I wish people would stop abusing the word trauma. If you actually see moving jobs as a "major life trauma" you are much too fragile and would likely benefit from building some resilience


What would you rank as a bigger loss? My list is pretty short. Wife, kids.

Losing a job means you lose your friends, your work, your brand, your routine, maybe the commute you chose your house for. Maybe you'll have to move your family. Your kids lose their friends. Your wife loses hers. Maybe you lose them in the somewhat likely divorce. Maybe you're upside down on the house you bought in that town and now you lose all your savings to move. Maybe it was a layoff, maybe you can't even afford child support. Maybe you're deported.

If we're stooping to personal insults, are you a child with zero real life experience?

Iirc, 1 in 4000 men take their lives in a layoff. In a year like this, shut your fucking mouth about how "fragile" other people are, you absolute twit.


The conversation thread was about people leaving the job voluntarily, I agree with you on the impact of layoffs it can ruin lives


If changing job is a major trauma I would advice seeing a therapist. This is not a standard for most people.


I suspect you've never really been passionate about your work or loved the crew you've worked with.

I recommend it. Love hurts, but sometimes it's a good hurt.


Your employer will get rid of you in a blink if needed, as current layoffs show, getting too attached to your work is not healthy - no matter how passionate you are about it.


Your husband or wife can also wake up and decide to "get rid of you in a blink".

How attached to them should you get?


It's a much less chance and not comparable at all. Treating job as a family member is also not healthy.


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