I wish people like you would actually talk to people at Anthropic, maybe interview with the company, actually engage with the real humans there before making blithe comments like this.
Seriously, you're on HN, you can't possibly be that many degrees removed from someone at the company.
In any case it's absolutely not "just marketing", it suffuses their whole culture, and it is genuine.
Doubt that. There's no point of bringing in a litigator on day 1 of a trial save for the fact they are probably a better public speaker. Whatever needed to get done needed to be done well before trial started.
Sure there is, if you can send back a strong response to a challenge, a potential litigant may back down ultimately saving money.
On staff legal council is there to be able to make the call when a more expensive firm should be hired and brought in. There's a lot of BS lawsuits, however, that flow through. For example, every software company that gets big enough will likely get sued for some BS patent infringement. Having on staff legal will be able to make the call of "yeah, you should just give them $10k to go away". That's a lot cheaper than hiring a firm to come in and then tell you "Yeah, you should give them $10k to go away".
Particularly for a business, it takes years before any case gets close to going to trial. Plenty of time for your council to make the determination on when bigger guns should be brought in.
>Sure there is, if you can send back a strong response to a challenge, a potential litigant may back down ultimately saving money.
Do you litigate? Hiring a new attorney to show up day of trial only communicates to the other side that it's clown-city.
>On staff legal council is there to be able to make the call when a more expensive firm should be hired and brought in. There's a lot of BS lawsuits, however, that flow through. For example, every software company that gets big enough will likely get sued for some BS patent infringement. Having on staff legal will be able to make the call of "yeah, you should just give them $10k to go away". That's a lot cheaper than hiring a firm to come in and then tell you "Yeah, you should give them $10k to go away".
Do you litigate? Do you know what's involved to actually get to a trial? Let alone the day of trial? In house is going to take depositions and brief summary judgment? In house is going to prepare the pre trial order? Get proposed jury instructions? Again, do you litigate?
>Particularly for a business, it takes years before any case gets close to going to trial. Plenty of time for your council to make the determination on when bigger guns should be brought in.
You said, in particular, "up until the point where you start a trial."
> You said, in particular, "up until the point where you start a trial."
That was wrong of me to say.
My intent was more to communicate that there's a lot of legal work before a case gets close to going to trial or even discovery which an in-house attorney can and will handle. Including evaluating if a case needs the big guns called in.
For what it's worth (to you), I've only ever dealt with one in-house litigation team and they were monsters. Typically, once a suit is filed, you get someone serious on it. It'd be pretty crazy to have a non-litigator draft responsive pleadings like an answer or a motion to dismiss.
> If some toddler spends two hours on a drawing, it's a masterpiece?
A work doesn't have to be a masterpiece to obtain a copyright so what difference does it make? The point of copyright isn't to subjectively critique art.
It sounds like they might be under the impression that having any AI-generated output in the code even if parts are human authored would invalidate the copyright, which isn’t true
The idea of copyright is to prohibit unauthorized use and reproduction, but none of this actually happens with a proprietary software SaaS backend. You don't actually give anybody the code - they connect to the service.
Access to the service is already governed by computer access laws, which don't depend on copyright. And if you never intentionally distributed your code outside of your org, you can call it a trade secret and nobody else has any legitimate right to access it - whether or not it is copyrightable.
There are other things that aren't copyrightable that are trade secrets already. This would be true of any kind of automated data collection for example. You couldn't copyright it but you can call it a trade secret.
And for any of that stuff, if you want to share it and limit distribution, you just have whoever wants access explicitly agree to be bound by contract law.
>The idea of copyright is to prohibit unauthorized use and reproduction, but none of this actually happens with a proprietary software SaaS backend. You don't actually give anybody the code - they connect to the service.
The point isn't that you have to give it to people, but okay?
>Access to the service is already governed by computer access laws, which don't depend on copyright
Yeah, copyright doesn't control everything, and?
>There are other things that aren't copyrightable that are trade secrets already. This would be true of any kind of automated data collection for example. You couldn't copyright it but you can call it a trade secret.
Okay?
>And for any of that stuff, if you want to share it and limit distribution, you just have whoever wants access explicitly agree to be bound by contract law.
Your point being? You're just rambling assumptions about copyright and other things, which don't even track the actual law.
> Your point being? You're just rambling assumptions about copyright and other things, which don't even track the actual law.
I'm replying to the post that claimed:
> If that’s how the court interpreted it, then the software industry is hosed, since that’d mean none of the generated code running in production right now is under any sort of copyright or otherwise protection, lol.
There is in fact "otherwise protection" for the software industry by... not distributing the code. They don't need copyright over the generated code if they vibe code a SaaS backend. Whether there's copyright or not is irrelevant for the business model.
Copyright is the strongest legal protection available. It does not have a state of mind element. Breach of contract is much more complicated and context-dependent.
>There is in fact "otherwise protection" for the software industry by... not distributing the code.
Copyright protects against reverse engineering in some circumstances, for example.
>Whether there's copyright or not is irrelevant for the business model.
Yeah, I'm going to continue to disagree with you as I'm actually a litigator.
> Yeah, I'm going to continue to disagree with you as I'm actually a litigator.
OK, can you explain to me why this is a disaster for a vibe-coded SaaS? Why are computer access and/or contract laws insufficient and why would a vibe-coded backend be a huge risk?
I really don't understand where copyright on the code itself is necessary to protect these business models, and hopefully you can help fill the gaps.
I didn't say it would be a huge risk, I just disagree that any of those features of the law cover what copyright does. They don't. If a trade secret is ever revealed, all protection is lost. Breach of contract is very complex compared to an infringement claim and would have to be negotiated. As a customer, why would I want to indemnify a software supplier? If there's no indemnity, it's not going to get anyone very far. CFAA basically requires that something get hacked so it's not going to cover the vast majority of scenarios...
>I really don't understand where copyright on the code itself is necessary to protect these business models, and hopefully you can help fill the gaps.
Well, did you ever try to understand? It's so exhausting coming to these threads when people are just making assumptions about how the law works without any regards to what actually happens, and then suggesting policy changes in response.
Here's a scenario - disgruntled ex-employee leaks the code. Now it's free for anyone to use because there is nothing you can do to stop anyone from using it because you have no rights in the code since the trade secret is broken. You can sue the employee. They are probably judgment proof, wont have a lot of money anyway, and will still not stop a competitor from spinning up the same exact thing.
Trade secret was your suggestion by the way... So do, you actually know how trade secrets work, or you just making things up??
>If that’s how the court interpreted it, then the software industry is hosed, since that’d mean none of the generated code running in production right now is under any sort of copyright or otherwise protection, lol.
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