There's friction to doing it this way right now, though. You lose out quickly on accessibility, SEO, performance and developer experience (you need developers that are more experienced).
Unfortunately, thinking about it in terms of game theory [0], I believe this is a good thing: I don't want most websites migrating to canvas-like APIs for rendering. My web browser is my agent and I'd like it to mostly render DOM-rendered pages with CSS styling and, perhaps, funny JavaScript that doesn't track me around.
Also, I wish Figma and Google Docs were just offline-usable desktop applications. Both are great _products_ and I use them, but using them on a browser tab makes me unhappy.
You can have programmatic apis for accessibility, SEO pages can be dom based, performance of figma is better than if implemented via the dom api, developer experience? you just get the best and stop pretending you have capable people that spend a day on discussing effects in react.
> My web browser is my agent
It's very likely not anymore, otherwise Chrome wouldn't have pushed for manifest v3
> I wish Figma and Google Docs were just offline-usable desktop applications.
I wish this too, but since we have decided app distribution to be web based, we need serious tools for making serious apps
> stop pretending you have capable people that spend a day on discussing effects in react.
Figma uses React for the UI panels. Google Docs uses the DOM extensively too.
> have pushed for manifest v3
I don't use Google Chrome.
> since we have decided app distribution to be web based
No one has decided this, it just happened because web browsers were in the right place at the right time. It's not set in stone and developer tooling for the desktop could easily revert this trend in a decade or so.
> Figma uses React for the UI panels. Google Docs uses the DOM extensively too.
Tangential uses of the dom, the core app is on the canvas
> I don't use Google Chrome.
Who cares? They have an almost monopoly and they dictate what to implement on the web, it's already happening that many sites don't work on firefox because they've been only optimized for Chrome. And btw Firefox will implement manifest v3 as well. If you're not using Firefox or Safari you're still using chromium. We don't even have the capability anymore of developing alternative browser engines, the spec is a monster and the various attempts are still very far away.
> No one has decided this, it just happened because web browsers were in the right place at the right time
Exactly and since this is the current reality I don't see why we couldn't have better browser tooling for rendering near native stuff like we do on desktop frameworks. Developer tooling for the desktop already exists since ages but web folks have injected desktop apps as well with bloated stuff like electron
I'd argue that S3-compatible isn't exactly what you'd need though. You'd need S3-compatible with similar latency characteristics for read and write, with four nines of availability and 10+ nines for durability. [0]. Their metrics are, quite honestly, absolutely impossible for most engineering teams and companies to ever achieve, no matter how hard they work at it. In essence, what I mean is Cursor could migrate Origin out of Amazon's S3, but they'd lose a lot of reliability and/or performance in the process.
Wow. I've been waiting years for this, ever since Modular first announced Mojo. To be entirely honest, I thought they would walk back on this promise and so I never really gave the language a chance. With this and the 1.0 release, it looks like a better time than ever to start taking a look into it.
I've made a huge critic towards Flutter in another comment of mine, but adoption isn't it: the biggest bank in Brazil, with 135 million clients, is a digital bank whose sole interface is their Flutter app. They are different regarding tech choices (they use Clojure on the backend too), but I think it's a huge testament of how far along Flutter adoption has come.
I really don't understand how/why people deny reality so hard when it comes to Flutter. Reminds me a bit of years ago when people were still scoffing at the idea of anyone actually adopting JavaScript to write web servers with while Node.js was very obviously eating up the market.
It eats the market indeed, and also presents business opportunities for folks like myself, jumping in writing C++ addons, or completely replacing it with Java, .NET, Go, Rust,....
All the more reason why it's important to have an accurate read on the market! I for one also know a few people who've made a pretty penny writing native integrations for React Native and now Flutter apps.
While I've used Flutter since Alpha, I've been away for a few years. A few things have shocked me in these release notes: how come Impeller still wasn't the default engine for all platforms? Also, why are they migrating to WASM if one of the core features of Dart is compiling to JavaScript? Finally, how come multi window support only get viable now, after four years having desktop support?
Honestly, Flutter is an extremely enjoyable development experience I would recommend anyone I care for to stay away from. The fact it's developed by Google doesn't help: it's a matter of time before they kill it like they did with so many UI libraries and frameworks already, specially with JetBrains developing Compose Multiplatform and the Android team going all-in in the Compose strategy.
Flutter operates more like a 2D game engine. It renders its own views, which involves a lot of arithmetic operations, making WASM a more efficient option than JS.
WASM or JS doesn’t matter. The reason is Canvas instead of DOM. Flutter apps render to the canvas element, because this is the only option for the 2D game engine you mentioned.
> how come Impeller still wasn't the default engine for all platforms
Because Impeller has had quite a bumpy ride. Even as recently as June I reported a bug/regression with basic stuff (lines with partial transparency on desktop). All my Android apps are still built with --no-enable-impeller because I've had many instances where the app just shows a blank screen due to driver conflicts.
It may be getting close to stable now, but it wasn't a smooth transition at all.
Unless it is a trivial app, it would still require quite some effort to port (and test), which has a cost. What do you gain by using Flutter that compensates for that risk?
We've been hearing that Flutter is going to be killed any day now for almost a decade. And yet here we are, it's a stable platform that's quietly chugging along with massive 3rd party buy in. Honestly, Google could abandon it at this point and it would have enough momentum to keep going just fine. Where is Compose Multiplatform? Does anyone actually use that, is it even stable yet?
The fact is, more and more companies are actually picking Flutter. :) Sony praises Flutter on embedded. LG has added extension to allow Flutter apps on its WebOS. Toyota is developing a Flutter game engine, which is already used in some of its cars.
Some do use CMP but yes it's quite immature compared to Flutter and they'll spend a lot of time fixing the same bugs with rendering that Flutter fixed a while ago. We'll see how it goes though, if CMP becomes the blessed route for Android cross platform development it'll attract more people and attention.
Whenever a website offers to create a passkey, it could end up in any of these:
- Samsung's Password Manager (if using a Samsung phone)
- Apple's Keychain (if using an iPhone)
- Google Password Manager
- Your operating system's keychain
- A bespoke password manager (e.g., Bitwarden or LastPass)
- Your hardware key
Most users do not have a security key fob. Instead, the proposal being mostly pushed is the idea that users can store keys on their own smartphones, making use of the modern TPM and chip security. Most of the discussion here revolves around that idea: "What if I lose my phone? What if I switch phones?" and that's why the problems seem so obvious to you.
I absolutely agree the best solution is to use hardware keys, but I'll admit it's cumbersome if I need them for hundreds of accounts (which I do have), having to register both for every website and praying that I never lose both at the same time in the case there's no viable recovery flow for some of the accounts. Also, most of these hardware keys are limited to 25 or 100 resident keys, which again makes them unable to substitute passwords. Observe the usage of the term resident keys: passkeys do rely on the private key being stored on the hardware key, as that allows discovery.
I was talking about the non-resident FIDO keys. “Passkey” term is meaningless unfortunately because FIDO Alliance did not define it initially, it was a marketing term invented by Apple and then re-introduced (or shoved down the throat) by the FIDO alliance.
In non-resident keys scenario you don’t store anything and from what I see there is no security downside of using non-resident keys.
Loosing both (or multiple) security keys is like loosing all your car or home keys. Very inconvenient, agreed.
Anyway, I think we can agree that FIDO authentication protocol implementation is a mess. Apple and Google made it messy because they wanted to lock down users to their platforms and then password managers followed. As a result, the current implementation is not more secure than “login with Apple” or “login with Google”.
Indeed, the only advantage to Resident Keys (i.e., Passkeys) is the discoverabillity of them, so you can login without even using a username. It's a shame all of the terminology around WebAuthn/FIDO2 and Passkeys is so loose and badly defined.
Honestly, I think OAuth logins are still an ok option for the average user, unfortunately, as I would never recommend someone I love to use Passkeys and put them through the burden of having to understand and deal with all of this mess.
I have deployed FIDO authenticators at a ~2000 employees organization as the second factor. It was great for a while - when early versions of macOS and iOS respected the “platform” claim and created non-exportable private keys backed by Secure Enclave. Windows was never a problem, keys were created in TPM. We mandated 2 FIDO credentials - typically the laptop and either a phone or Yubikey (or both). People were encouraged to use the later but as soon as the keys were not exportable, phones were acceptable.
Then, Chrome got an update and started hijacking the enrolment process from the operating system and created keys synced to Google Account. This resulted worse UX because authentication now required pulling the Android phone (for those unlucky ones who have it) and confirming the login there instead of doing it right on the computer, uninterrupted.
Then, Apple followed with cloud-only key pairs and then so did the password managers (including Bitwarden Enterprise we were using) and everything become a mess.
The only solution would be to use the key attestation and to only allow specific security keys. Both Chrome and Apple have config knobs to simplify enterprise attestation (a strong assurance, which FIDO authenticator has been used), but neither Windows nor macOS support key attestation for hardware-backed keys (and macOS ignores “platform” claim altogether).
I have to think people aren't doing any research. Both Android and Apple sync your passkeys to your account. You can toss all your devices in a wood chipper, buy a replacement and still have access to all your passkeys.
Yeah, they do. But what if you want to move from Android to iPhone or vice versa? That's the big problem regarding these keychains/password managers. Some of them didn't even allow you to export your Passkeys until a few months ago, meaning you were literally locked into their platform.
Remember that your average user has no idea what a passkey is, doesn't remember half of their passwords and has no idea what a password manager is.
If you want to change it maybe tough. It doesn't have to be. Bitwarden has an open source self hosted option(you can also use their service), that can be set as provider in Android and Windows 11. KeepassXC is an option everything is in your kdbx file. Passkeys are so much more convenient and secure. If you do get stuck having to migrate, you can use your password (I would actually prefer just using multiple passkeys.) You don't need to do them all at once. Your average user is probably using whatever their device offers or nothing at all. I'd argue anyone that is tech savvy shouldn't be using either Google or Apple. If your account is disabled, you probably just lost anyway to retrieve your account unless you use a separate email address. I recently discovered cross device auth when a device I had a passkey was able to open my account on my pc that didn't have a passkey. TLDR ther are simple solutions that solve the 'lock in' issue.
So the use of Passkeys is contingent on allowing a major tech firm to spy on you?
I actually do have a Google account, but do not link my (Android) phone to it. I don't have WhatsApp or any other spyware on the device. I do use Telegram, Ankidroid, and a few other apps that I trust. I'm not a fanatic, but I won't enable and abet anybody to follow me around and report all that I do. How my position is considered an extreme position today eludes me, and frightens me as well.
This is because Microsoft approached 2b2t, and said if they don't implement these rules, they will be blacklisted.
Blacklisting is a penalty normally given to pay-to-win or gambling servers, where the client will refuse to connect to the server's domain name or IP address. In this case, Microslop used it to force a server to censor the word "fuck", because Microslop are political extremists.
MS really hates minecraft's inherited self hosted server model. You can actually get a global ban for wrongthink commited on your own private server. (granted, someone needs to report you but still)
Also not really a censorship issue but I'm kinda bummed that the new version will default to having the server whitelist on. Going on an ip scanning site and joining random minecraft servers accindentally left on for years is an experience like no other. Some of the longer running ones are full of signs left by other explorers, or just griefed to shit. One of the few remaining wild wests on the internet.
I think broadly I'm in agreement that the censorship via blacklisting threats was unwarranted. That said, I also think we should keep in mind that this isn't some public forum made for adults to have discussions, it's a public block game server. I think it's more than reasonable to say that the average minecraft player is probably a child and one of the most popular servers being full of swastikas and racial slurs probably isn't good for children. Personally I think there was potential for some kind of middle ground, but I'm also not mourning the loss of the obsidian nazi builds too hard. The paradox of tolerance and all that. The vast majority of the anarchy spirit is still there, it's just slightly less edgy. It's hard to discuss in good faith because the advocates for lack of censorship here are largely people who want to spam the N word in chat all day or their unwitting allies. Ultimately, whatever the outcome (and I think the current outcome is at least /ok/), I've made peace with the possibility of losing minecraft as a medium for totally free speech. It's just a block game.
> I think it's more than reasonable to say that the average minecraft player is probably a child and one of the most popular servers being full of swastikas and racial slurs probably isn't good for children.
Maybe. They’ll encounter if eventually and if they are coddled too much they can’t handle it. I also think folks forget, or perhaps they were coddled, that kids already know about a lot of this stuff and when parents aren’t around say all the bad works and make very, very crude jokes. That’s what kids do. That’s what we did.
Sure, kids will encounter a lot of things, but there’s a difference between coddling and having conversations when the time is right (well, better - there’s rarely a correct time in any exact sense with kids).
Our kid is old enough now to have a good grasp on “world war 2 was bad, nazis are bad”, and if they were to hop on this server and then we have discussions surrounding ie the “obsidian swaztikas” mentioned above, I think it would go alright.
This kid is also smart, and emotionally aware, and actually a pretty cool dude. They can swear around us, and never in anger towards someone, and tbh they’ve said “oh shit” once while playing a game with us because they got spooked and last night during a run on Marathon they went “hey phatskat, I might use a swear word”. I asked what they wanted to say and why they were hesitant (since they know the rule that it’s ok generally), and they explained that swearing makes the “queasy” lol. A couple minutes later they went “ok, I’m gonna say it. Fuck yeah!”
All that is to say, I don’t feel like they’re coddled, and they also aren’t just going to grow up like I did in the Wild West of the 90’s internet. I saw a LOT of things I shouldn’t have, way too soon, and I also grew up in an environment where hiding that from my parents was the safest option. So yeah me and my friends swore and made off color jokes around each other because the adults would get mad, despite us learning a lot of the crude stuff from them and then Something Awful et al. In hiding it, I felt like the harder topics were absolutely not able to be broached with my parents, and looking back on it that sucks.
The way my partner and I are approaching it is to be up front and have the conversations we can at the kid’s level in a way that makes sense (eg age six: war bad, age ten: World War Two was a war about…).
There’s a middle ground between coddling and bootstraps, and it’s the kind of parenting I want to encourage others to do if they can.
You making the rest of the world foam padded because you don't want to control what your kid can access is gross. The rest of the world didn't have a kid. You did.
That’s a wild take tbh. In a different comment I did say that ideally the community would’ve taken action before MS had to step in. I don’t want to make the world “foam padded”, and in particular when it comes to fascism it should be stomped out wherever it appears, point blank. It’s a bummer that Microsoft came in and threatened to blacklist the server, and at the same time if you have a nazi in your bar and you don’t kick them out, you own a nazi bar.
Yes, my kids will run in to nazism in the wild, and I can’t control that, and if they ran into in a Minecraft server we’d talk about that and maybe even make an effort to clean it up ourselves - that’s what I think that community and frankly any community that doesn’t want to be a nazi community should do.
That’s a false equivalence and imo disingenuous - Nazis are understood by the broad majority to be “bad”. We, the public, don’t want nazis around - period. If I go to a bar and there’s a handful of obvious nazis there, I’m leaving because said bar has said “we’re ok with Nazis” and that’s a Nazi bar.
Most communists don’t hold abhorrent beliefs such as “Jewish people should be eradicated” or “the world belongs to the aryan race”, but a Nazi is a Nazi, there’s no grey area there.
1) that said bar knows everyone's political mindset, including those which haven't been made public;
2) that said bar actually treats said Nazi with decency;
Also, most communists hold the belief that there must be a violent revolution and the opposition should be executed, specially those of the tankie variety.
Edit: I have noticed you switched the count of Nazis from singular to plural ("if you have a nazi in your bar" -> "If I go to a bar and there’s a handful of obvious nazis") while proposing I'm being disingenuous. This might not have mattered to you, but the prevalence of an ideology is very important to whether a bar "is a Nazi bar" or "happens to have a Nazi".
3) “most” is doing some heavy lifting, and even so, you are showing the shades of communism. Nazism expresses an ideology of hate and racial superiority, it’s a completely different beast. (And yes I know that communism has been party to some ethnic cleansing such as in Stalinist Russia, however, that belief system of ethnic superiority is not inherent to communism)
1) fair enough, I was focusing on the original post;
2) disagree, the bar might be a pretty public place, so being allowed in is just the default; or they might have been personally allowed in, but is treated as the butt of jokes;
3) is it? "most" is pretty big group. If you take issue, we can replace it with "tankie". Also, does it really matter whether the motivations are racial or not? Mass murder is still mass murder, regardless of motivations.
Still, I feel like you are missing my main point. Having a Nazi, even if an obvious one, isn't enough for a bar to be nazified. It might be the trigger for that, but it might not. I argue that this "nazification process", which mirrors the "degeneration" process in libertarian literature, isn't a binary thing that should be treated this reductively.
I disagree on the “nazification” point, your main point, because fascism is the kind of insidious thing that can’t be allowed a foothold. To your point 2, even if the Nazis were allowed in to be the butt jokes, it’s still allowing them in and tolerating them.
If an establishment is aware of Nazis in their ranks and they aren’t condemning them, then they’re supporting them by way of not removing them. It’s the paradox of tolerance at play.
I don’t want to really derail into different aspects of communism, just want to say that most communists I’ve met or been exposed to only believe in violent revolution if peaceful revolution isn’t an option. Again, this isn’t, to me, an equivalent to the violent beliefs of Nazism.
I have to disagree on fascism being this insidious bogeyman. While I agree that they ought to be fought against, IMO this is reaching into red scare territory (which is fitting, given that both share a really close ideological root).
I also disagree that merely keeping a Nazi in your establishment is support for Nazism. Simply not removing a Nazi is no more than not removing a person, it doesn't speak whether the ideology will actually take root.
The paradox of intolerance, in its original form written by Karl Popper, is about discussions. In this context, intolerants are people who forego argumentation. Kicking a person, Nazi or not, who has been acting peacefully and has been engaging in argumentation isn't "intolerance against intolerance", it's intolerance proper. You may argue that you are trying to prevent a future situation with this, but unless it is a 100% guaranteed (which I argue it isn't), it's just plain intolerance.
Finally, bear in mind that there are more equivalences in beliefs than you think. Mein Kampf didn't speak anything about Jew mass murder (and it still happened), and most (as in, the ones you see "marxist-leninist" in their profile) socialists admit that a nonviolent approach is basically impossible. In the end, both ideologies share the willingness to dehumanize and murder their opposition (and for similar reasons, Nazi-brand racial hatred derives from the same core idea).
> Finally, bear in mind that there are more equivalences in beliefs than you think. Mein Kampf didn't speak anything about Jew mass murder (and it still happened), and most (as in, the ones you see "marxist-leninist" in their profile) socialists admit that a nonviolent approach is basically impossible. In the end, both ideologies share the willingness to dehumanize and murder their opposition (and for similar reasons, Nazi-brand racial hatred derives from the same core idea).
Spot on. It's interesting to me that we've failed to stomp out communist sympathies but I guess we didn't stomp out Nazi sympathies either.
Both are authoritarian ideologies that are incompatible with free expression, free trade, and free peoples. Yet people openly talk about being communists despite the above and despite the fact that tens of millions of dead precisely because of communist ideologies and failed economic policies. To claim that fascism and specifically Naziism is an insidious boogeyman means you should also claim the same about communism. Curious how some/many folks don't or don't seem to understand that.
Tbf, communism is indeed more broad than Hitler's Nazism, from pre-marxists to Proudhon ancoms (although a similar comment may be made about the common sense definition of Fascism), hence I changed scope towards traditional Marxist-Leninists.
It's more broad but I don't think that changes anything with respect to the destructiveness and need to stamp out the ideology. Nazism is just a flavor of either authoritarianism or maybe just a flavor of a broader racial/cultural superiority ideology. Typically in the west we reject the whole tree and not just some of the branches. I apply the same argument to communism. And you can certainly find more charitable interpretations where maybe some freedoms are still present, but you can do the same thing racial or cultural superiority ideologies or similar.
its sad ppl cant run their own servers without companies interfering. Was never an issue on games like CS. sure there was a lot of toxic ones but also rly nice ones. you cant moderate human nature. hiding it does no one any good either.
I don't understand why you're being downvoted for this. Microsoft should not be moderating privately-run servers.
Sure, on the realms or whatever they're called or whatever servers Microsoft do operate, fair game and good idea. But if I'm running a Minecraft server on my homelab it should be my decision what behaviour is acceptable within that server.
It's a case of some people making it worse for everyone. If people behaved on the server, MS wouldn't have intervened, which then wouldn't have made 2b2t cave on a what feels like a core ideal. It may only have chipped a corner of that ideal, but it still stings.
That said, I think it is inevitable for any anarchist server that gets large enough to end up in this exact situation. MS wasn't going to let one of the biggest and most famous servers of its most popular game be filled with swastikas. Even less so when it's so popular with kids.
In a funnier world, 2b2t would have said 'no', but I have a feeling MS would escalate, and that whatever email or whatever the admins got probably implied as much, so maybe that world wouldn't be funnier after all.
> That said, I think it is inevitable for any anarchist server that gets large enough to end up in this exact situation.
Agree, and I think it’s the community’s responsibility to decide what is and isn’t tolerable - even within anarchy. Forget MS, the (imo) proper response should have been the community actively choosing to deface and destroy the nazi stuff, or outright ban it from the moment it became a thing.
Microsoft just wants to avoid press of kids getting groomed or seeing adult content on Minecraft servers. Stuff like this is bad for a brand that primarily targets kids as new players and could get them into hot water with regulators.
I personally believe that they probably should add parental controls to Minecraft so parents can control what if and what kind of servers kids can join. I also believe more control will put more scrutiny on Microsoft since I haven't a lot of negative press about child safety in Minecraft especially in comparison with Roblox for example.
Where else would it start if not "you're not allowed to say this word because I don't like it"? Personally, I don't see why that word being banned gets a free pass. Would this proverbial slope start with speech at all? I can't imagine why one would accept one word being banned, then stand up to decry another being banned. What word would that be? Why is it more worthy than any other word?
Historically, it doesn't seem like much of a fallacy to say speech controls become more stringent after being introduced. Indeed, historically, one could remove the word "speech" and still be correct. The control doesn't go away in most cases until power changes hands, and even then it's often meeting the new boss, same as the old boss.
You might be able to do that in Windows, if you bypass TPM and CPU requirements or if you stay with Windows 10 extended updates.
You won't be able to in macOS without OpenCore Legacy Patcher and a lot of faith in your God of choice.