In what way has the Chinese government destroyed Chinese tech. The big tech companies are still there just more regulated. They are also still innovating.
The Chinese government does actually know the difference between real productive forces and the stock market. It would be really weird for a socialist government to not know the theoretic works of Marx, lenin and stalin.
Possibly, but the problem with dichotomies is that they're dichotomous.
To the extent that they have teeth, anti-china nationalism, jingoism & anti-authoritarianism are very hard to distinguish. It has to do with motivations, and motivations are opaque, even to the first person.
I do think that the current anti-authoritarianism/jingoism is, currently, a stabilizing factor for the CCP. Most moderately pro-democracy person will get a whiff of the jingoism embedded within the anti-authoritarian "movement," and determine that these people are not their friends. Better to stick with the CCP than a faction where anti-chinese jingoism is indistinguishable from anti-ccp democracy motives.
Even the United States isn't genuinely democratic as most representative hold stock in various companies.
The best way to influence congress in the United States is to lobby, not vote.
And even in the ways that democracy works in the United States, most issues are in a deadlock position.
How long has the United States argued over abortion? the past, what, half century?
And we still go back and forth.
The United States is crumbling right now due to this deadlock with each party looking to overturn the changes that the previous leadership has overturned and so on and so forth.
Democracy is dying.
My ignorance is not as valuable as your knowledge, but this is precisely what democracy implies.
This isn't to say I advocate for Authoritarian governments either, but they do get rid of the levels of bureaucracy and levels of administration to administer changes, whereas in an authoritarian government is way more efficient to deal with changes.
I'd advocate for a benevolent authoritarian, but it doesn't mean that the successor, or the next, won't be a complete asshole, which is why authoritarian is dangerous.
However, the form of government that I would truly advocate for is a meritocratic oligarchy where the few would have absolute rule, but deserve to have that absolute rule in the sense they are benevolent, just, but wise and efficient at the same time.
Democracy is dying. I have absolutely no hope for this deadlock and polarization between the the factions of the United States, especially when most representatives are sellouts to corporations.
What's obvious for us who have been oppressed by the empire, for those who live there it might be impossible to see. They're the ones under propaganda 24/7, after all. Occam's razor works really well for many users of this site, but as soon as the subject is a rival superpower, everything is thrown out the window and it's the usual McCarthyism.
We've banned this account for using HN primarily for nationalistic battle. That's not allowed here [1]. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. Also, single-purpose accounts are not allowed here generally, because they aren't compatible with the value of curiosity that's supposed to animate this place (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
1. Flat out false, they are actively engaging in border skirmishes with India, and they are actively antagonizing every single neighbouring country (with virtually all of whom they have border disputes), not to mention Taiwan.
2. Millions of what? And what’s the relevance of this?
> have you noticed which country is the source of this war against evil communist dictatorship?
IMO, you would be mistaken if you view the positions of American allies (Germany, Canada, Australia, Japan, UK, etc.) here as client states simply falling in line with their master's opinion. Though the USA is certainly influential on them.
Whether justified or not, the recent hardening of anti-Chinese-government positions from these countries seem to be largely independent actions, based on their own evaluations of their geopolitical security situation, which come to similar conclusions as the USA. In the case of Australia and Japan and Korea in particular, the current hard line taken actually predates the mid-2010s shift in America.
- You cannot travel abroad (no passport issued for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)
- You cannot go beyond China's intranet legally (VPN is technically illegal in China). VPN services keep getting slowed/banned.
- You cannot transfer much money out of country legally (50k limit a year, but
you end up going to bank 10+ times just to be able to transfer 10k)
- You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid game, porn and many many more things legally
- You have very little rights as LGBT
- You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat (not working/pursuing marriage)
- You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list
- You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared). The state discourages showing off wealth
- You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power
- You are constantly subjugated to random mass covid testing, standing hours outside in the cold
- Oh and there's the yearly flood + shoddy buildings + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship
> You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat (not working/pursuing marriage)
None of the government/public workers are working that schedule. Or someone who finds a job in the private companies who aren't insane.
> You are constantly subjugated to random mass covid testing, standing hours outside in the cold.
Speaking from anecdotal experience, my parent has been subjugated to none in 2021 because they were not living in an affected location. Mass covid testing are only carried out where there are outbreaks.
> You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list
Might apply to your personal case? I don't know even one person who are constantly invited to police station for tea, despite having hundreds of friends in China.
> You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid game, porn and many many more things legally
Except that everyone does, and I'm not aware of any prosecutions. Also, Spiderman, BTS, squid game does not even touch laws, they just haven't been screened in cinemas, you can still get them from different sources (which often means piracy in China).
> Oh and there's the yearly flood + shoddy buildings + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship
We'll see then. The rhetoric have been around for decades.
Some of what you said is true to a degree, but you are painting it in a very biased fashion. China has a lot of flaws, but what you said certainly does not apply to an 'average' Chinese citizen. In fact, all of these combined are almost impossible to happen to a single Chinese citizen, average or not.
Are you saying China isn't constantly monitoring their population? Are they not the dystopian dictatorship they pretend not to be? I am not so sure I can be convinced when they literally tell citizens how long they can and cannot play video games.... Sorry, behaviors don't lie.
> Are you saying China isn't constantly monitoring their population? Are they not the dystopian dictatorship they pretend not to be?
I did not say anything like that. Why are you setting up a strawman when you can easily go and refute/debate any language in my previous comment? Do you have any disagreement with any specific things I have said? Please be specific.
> None of the government/public workers are working that schedule. Or someone who finds a job in the private companies who aren't insane.
Oddly enough, on my first trip to China in 1999, everyone was still expected to work Saturdays. The change to getting Saturday off is relatively recent…maybe 15 or so years ago?
> Except that everyone does, and I'm not aware of any prosecutions. Also, Spiderman, BTS, squid game does not even touch laws, they just haven't been screened in cinemas, you can still get them from different sources (which often means piracy in China).
“Rule by law”, as opposed to “rule of law”, means laws are arbitrarily enforced according to the whims of the party. So they aren’t going to prosecute you for watching banned media…until they want to get you for something (and in that case, they’ll find something).
- You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)
- You cannot go beyond China's intranet
- You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks
- You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally
- You have very little rights as LGBT
- You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat
- You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list
- You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared)
- You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power
- You are constantly subjugated to random mass testing
- Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship
I used to think China was some North Korean-style hellscape and hated the country.
Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was. Ended up realizing most internet comments and news articles are posted by people who are absolutely obsessed with China and only get their information through seventh-hand sources--it's that insanely distorted.
Left loving the country because everything was so contrary to my conditioned expectations and went back for a few more trips.
Pushing a super hard anti-anything narrative in this age is bound to backfire, because finding information contrary to it isn't hard.
Everyday life is generally okay there, and it's not hard to have a great time as a tourist there. The problems are if you are unhappy with the status quo and are a dissenter.
You can flourish there, relatively, if you follow the rules. But if you get on the government's bad side you will be quashed.
A few hours in some towns were more than enough to make it very clear that I'd never want to go there ever again.
It's weird how people come out and complain about this with only one specific country. Nobody gets angry when they say a trip to somewhere else was enough to make them enjoy a place.
I mean, I've also got friends there and speak the language to some extent now. It's not like I walked in on some sanitized tour for a day and left.
The country has problems. But it's not a prison camp of 1.4 billion like the internet would make you think. Most people are pretty happy living there, even people who've been to other countries.
It's definitely not a good place to be a political or religious activist. Most countries outside of the EU aren't and China is definitely on the worse end when it comes to that issue, but it's pretty nice for most people.
I've traveled to countries for weeks, even months in total, then moved there, before the real issues of said country / culture / society become properly apparent and people open up about things. I'm not saying it was bad, but it takes a bit of time to read a place. Imagine that in a place where saying the wrong thing can have you landed in prison.
I've actually worked with some Chinese for years and it wasn't until I went out on a dinner that some really ugly stuff about why Han people in the past have been treated badly and that being the justification for the treatment of Uighur people, then I listened to an hour about why Muslim people are a problem and all the horror stories they'd read about them in the paper (it was clearly propaganda). Scarier for me one of their best friends at the time, who just missed the dinner, was Muslim. That wouldn't be an isolated case I'm sure.
This is not to single out Chinese by the way, I'm just reinforcing my point that it seems naive to just say, "I stopped by, looked pretty good, I'd go back, seems like a good place."
I've had people from virtually every country randomly start racist discussions with me. I've been in Paris waiting for a train, and had some white Canadians come up and say "Hey, are you American?" (presumably my bad fashion made me stand out) Then suddenly start complaining about black people just because I said "Yeah, I am" as if that was an OK to be racist. I don't use that to say "yep, Canada's bad."
I've also dealt with countless people who've said "You've been to China? Oh, let me tell you how they justify racism" and seeing zero irony in their statement.
Bizarre. Seriously
And people somehow take any claim of saying "China is decent" to mean it's flawless and attack it. People don't do this with any countries unless they're East Asian, and they specifically get angry about China these days. You can't even mention enjoying Japan without someone online saying "oh they're all racist. I would know because I had dinner with a Japanese man." It's tiring.
You don’t even need to go to a foreign country for this experience. I read bullshit about how bad conditions in California are all the time from right-wingers who just want to propagandize for their own political benefit.
However: you seem to be telling a native Chinese person that they’re wrong about their impressions of their own country. Do you want to maybe add some nuance to that?
> However: you seem to be telling a native Chinese person that they’re wrong about their impressions of their own country. Do you want to maybe add some nuance to that?
I don't read forgotmyoldname's comment as telling chunghuaming that they are wrong about their impressions of China. It's more about forgotmyoldname's own impressions, and his/her assessment of people in general who comment online about China.
In follow up comments, forgotmyoldname also provides first and second hand supporting experiences. Do you have any of yours that would contradict theirs?
I don't think the guidelines of HN allow insinuating other commenters are paid shills. It's entirely possible someone visited China and genuinely loved the country and the people. Let's not be rude.
Did you even bother to read my top level comment about not calling people you disagree with as shills before you replied to it? Or did you just piggyback off the top comment at the time to soapbox?
It's really wild that people are so crazed that they think everyone is a paid shill. There's medical terminology to describe people who think everything is a grand conspiracy and make unfalsifiable claims about anyone who opposes them.
But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :)
It shows the effectiveness of massive weapons of deception, and cognitive defects of modern human. Most people know the ground truth just stay away of the argument. Most time I do the same thing but not this time.
I mean, I have. I've been to a few provinces and seen small towns and big cities. It's way better than I was led on to believe after reading daily reports about it being hell on earth--the low expectations made it way better. I'm not saying it's utopia or anything. Just not even 5% as bad as the wild stuff reddit or news sites would try to make me believe.
But people on the internet are way too into the Red Scare Part II and think literally anything against their personal opinion is someone paid by a state actor specifically to attack them on the internet. It's, quite frankly, nuts, and an unhealthy way of looking at the world and seeding visible increases in racism.
You sounds like a paid endorsement sponsored by CIA. You were born and lived there for 30 years? I was born and lived there 30 years then live in Western democracy with freedom along with human rights. I clearly know where the CPP hater's delusion come from
Then after a few months your Chinese business partner gets a bit too envious and denounce you to the police for "spying" or "fraud". Of course being not Chinese you basically have no rights and you get exit banned or disappeared while your partner takes over everything your owned.
>You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)
Really? What accounts for all the Chinese tourists visiting Europe/UK/USA? I have a friend who runs a hostel in Edinburgh and the majority of her guests are Chinese so much so that they have had to print signs in Mandarin asking people to abide by certain rules.
>You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks
This must not be enforced that severely given how much capital has flowed into other countries real estate market. In fact this is a common loophole used to get US citizenship. (invest 500k and you can get a green card).
The "cannot travel abroad" claim might refer to one of two things:
1. China requires extremely long quarantines when entering the country. 14 days in a quarantine hotel + 7 days at home is standard. Some jurisdictions go as high as 28 + 28.
2. China has recently restricted issuances of new and renewed passports. This is being done locally, so enforcement is inconsistent, but generally one needs a strong reason ("studying abroad", "international business") to get a passport issued now.
China allows transfer out of the country for the purpose of buying homes, but cash transfers are restricted to a certain annual limit. The restrictions on transferring currency out of China and on exchanging currency are a huge problem for expats leaving the country. Until this year, the recommendation for expats leaving the country was to use bitcoin.
The policy changed pretty recently, a friend of mine married to a Chinese citizen, and has been living there for almost a decade. They left in 2019 because the attitude to foreigners working in China, and Chinese going abroad has undergone a sea change. There are strict controls on capital flows, it's much harder to get work or visit visas for Chinese going abroad, many Chinese working abroad have been put under pressure to go back. They left before him working there got untenable, and it got too hard for his wife to leave.
This has been masked over the last 2 years by the pandemic, but it started a few years before.
I literally transfer money back and forth almost every week. So, not true. Regular international wire transfer work just fine, and most major banks allow it. Even foreigners can open such accounts. I have one.
It's still possible to transfer money for businesses. China is still heavily integrated into the global economy, so they're not going to cut the lines completely, but my family and friends over there who are Chinese citizens used to do direct bank transfers internationally from their personal current accounts in China and now they can't.
My wife has a BoC account (personal), no problem transferring money back and forth whatsoever, dunno other banks. You obviously need to get the iban or the shift code right. Your local bank should be able to help you.
The problem seems to be that, as with many things in China, the laws and regulations are considered more guidelines than actual rules. If the authorities want to crack down on stuff, they do and there's nothing anyone can do about it, and it's not always clear what criteria are used to make decisions on these things, if any.
A friend of mine (Chinese student studying abroad) has a BoC account which automatically transfers money to a foreign account, and it has a relatively low annual transfer limit: around $10,000 per year.
Things like banning porn simply don't work unless substituted. People have already turned to amateur recordings instead. That's things the elderly rulers don't want to or can't understand. Ultimate control is not possible with human beings, especially in the 21st century.
How did that happen? Iirc, according to Hurun Report 10 years ago, some 80% of the upper class Chinese had an escape plan ready. You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country.
> You cannot travel abroad
In the border with Vietnam, at night you can cross the border for 5 yuan on one of the smuggler boats.
> You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power
Only country in the world with more female suicides than male suicides.
Also, no recourse if CCP thugs steal your stuff. Guy I knew had his Ferrari stolen. Couldn't do anything because the thief was a local party functionary's son.
None of these can be attributed to authoritarian, or some form of CCP brutality, when moderate amount of scrutiny is applied ...
> - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)
This is of course because of China's CVOID policy, which is 0 tolerance. That's a rational decision of China's high-density population, and manufacturing-based economy. I do not think it's inherent anti-human-rights, as the death count is fractional to open-co-existence policy. Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one.
> - You cannot go beyond China's intranet
VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law.
> - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks
This is just not true... You can use various services to transfer money out. The only issue is that they are subject to certain limitations, which are far more restrictive than US. But again, US dominates world financial system, there is a view that financial imperialism is a key part of US capitalist exploiting Chinese workers. Thus the financial limitation. I doubt that anyone other than the rob-barrons are affected by this. I personally know a lot of Crypto super riches, trust me, they are absolutely a net negative force in society.
> - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally
You can. VPN to netflix. And a lot of pirated content.
They were just not allowed to go through the official channel.
Of course, CCP is wrong here. But let's not paint a picture that Chinese people are sheeps.
> - You have very little rights as LGBT
Not sure what you are talking about.
LGBT is not discriminated officially in any form in the CHinese society.
Society still holds stigma over these people. One primary reason is that these groups are associated with higher chance of sexually-transmitted diseases.
And dont assume me a CCP associate, I have a good friend who is gay. He is my college friend. He is pretty happy.
> - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat
This is probably what forced upon by the private firms.
These are punished heavily by CCP recently.
Jack Ma and Alibaba are the defender of 996...
> - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list
This is not true.
I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. None of the 50 people ever had any sign of being bothered.
I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. If that's true, China either already have an AGI, or what we bought everyone are not actually made in China, because there are simply not enough cheap labor to produce them in the first place, and most of them are employed in watching others.
> - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared)
1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared...
First, the number of billionaires are unknown. Chinese society had a tradition of the rich become victims during the terminal phase of the dynasty. So the rich is very well aware of this fact, and they hide. Do you know that Mr. Deng Xiaoping's son is astronomically rich, but you'll never see anywhere his net worth is published?
Second, please give a citation... To engage this discussion is putting legitimacy on this ridiculous claim...
> - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power
Come on... This becomes ridiculous...
Gender equality in China is pretty high. Ranked 38th out of 157 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China
I mean it's not spectacular, but your statement is just outlandish...
> - You are constantly subjugated to idiotic mass testing/lockdown
What do you mean? I said a lot of bad words about CCP. I was not distant by my family or friends...
> - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship
If you read western media, then these are what they said.
But these are not true according to what I hear from my friends and family.
> Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one.
How can welding front gates shut be protecting human life? How can anyone survive after being cut off from food, medicine, supplies, contact, income? Don't pretend zero-tolerance policy is about protecting people, it is to protect Xi JingPing who has staked his personal political standing on the zero tolerance policy[1].
Some regions have been under continual lock-down for the better part of this year. Do you know how many people have died from lock-down? Does anyone know? Does CCP permit anyone to count? For that matter, how many people died in Wuhan two years ago? Why is CCP killing a citizen journalist for writing about Wuhan outbreak[2]? Is her life not human?
>VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law.
Pray tell which VPNs are legal in China? Which one can I use to visit HN legally in China? What is stopping an enterprising person to make your "correct" VPNs user friendly to the mass? I will you, because it does not exist!
> I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China.
Why don't you post to your WeChat groups "佟丽娅嫁给中宣部副部长," reputed marriage of an actress to the vice minister of Propaganda Ministry and take a screenshot? You cannot even search it in Baidu, and you have the gall to say the Internet in China is constantly watched.
> Why don't you post to your WeChat groups "佟丽娅嫁给中宣部副部长," reputed marriage of an actress to the vice minister of Propaganda Ministry and take a screenshot? You cannot even search it in Baidu, and you have the gall to say the Internet in China is constantly watched.
Dude, what is this thing? I have no idea what's going on with this "佟丽娅嫁给中宣部副部长,"?
> Dude, what is this thing? I have no idea what's going on with this "佟丽娅嫁给中宣部副部长,"?
You say you are born in China, so presumably you can read Chinese. Then you can head over to [1] and read all about oversea Chinese making fun of CCP censoring salacious rumors about an actress and vice minister of Propaganda. The most powerful police apparatus and most sprawling internet censorship machinery working in overdrive to suppress tabloid, not because the rumor may or may not be false but because the Party knows the people believe it true in their heart.
This is an US site, most people here believe that they hear from the media, and is understandable, the same way most Chinese people believe that they see in CCTV. I get people in China asking if I'm safe, or if my house was assaulted by antifa. I think people if they are really interested of what is happening in either country should do their research, instead of parroting what they hear in Youtube. But yeah, you will get downvoted , so will I. ;)
Well said. But the major problem is vetting the source of your research. Even academic studies are subject to bias or are simply statistical outliers (e.g., type 2 errors).
You can only go so far down the rabbit hole of research before you're wasting time. It's a lot like signal detection theory: Where do you strike the balance between effort and accuracy in research?
Indeed, maybe my phrasing was wrong, but I feel nationalism only creates feeds xenophobia, because is never "X government", is always "the chinese", "the russians" , "insert_the_current_buggy_man_here"... I also understand that there is no chance this will ever change.
> I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China.
Maybe you do, but do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0] and forced to provide quarter to government agents in their own homes under a dehumanizing “big brother” program [1]? Or how the CCP forced Uighurs to surgically implant IUDs and undergo forced abortion and sterilization procedures [2]? That would probably get you on the CCP’s radar.
Don’t pretend like there’s any semblance of open discussion about truly controversial issues.
> I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China.
The “constantly watched” bit is a total strawman. Nobody is implying that all Chinese citizens are constantly watched by CCP thugs. All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message contents to help direct a limited number of investigations against political dissidents who may threaten the CCP’s grip on power - or as they refer to it, “stability”.
Selected quote: “Every former camp detainee Amnesty interviewed in the report recounted cruel and degrading treatment, including torture. The report, released Thursday, is based on interviews with 108 people, including 55 camp survivors and several government cadres who worked in the camps.”
Yes, it happened. Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact.
Selected quote: “Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.”
Think about what that would be like. It’s as horrible as it is effective, and it’s partly why the Third Amendment to the US Constitution exists.
Selected quote: “But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.”
Think about what it would be like for your government to show up at your door, handcuff you, take you to a hospital, anesthetize you, and surgically remove your ability to procreate. That’s what the CCP does to its own people.
> do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0]
We discuss that. That was viewed as a western media propaganda. I.e., no hard proof from any reputable organizations (UN for example).
> All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message
I know far worse things the local government did using their information monopoly. You don't need to educate me on that.
What I replied is that the OP wanted to paint a picture of a dystopian monitoring in China, that's not what happens.
> Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact.
These are reports, not facts.
I dont believe these reports, because these media shows some incredible buntant manipulation. I simply cannot trust people like these. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS8EceIa1MQ&t=115s
> Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.
> But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.
LMAO
My mother, a Han people, was subject to forced abortion. I was born in a different city than my hometown to evade that.
Stop painting racial conflicts, when there is none.
The lies can go on for a while, but they cannot last forever...
I have friends visiting Xinjiang and talked with local people, Uyghur and non Uyghurs. There is no evidence that supports the 1M number. You can watch a lot of YouTube video of people visiting Xinjiang and the local people. Make your own judgement.
>We discuss that. That was viewed as a western media propaganda. I.e., no hard proof from any reputable organizations (UN for example).
In response to that comment, I linked reports from the United Nations, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Those are 3 of the most reputable organizations in the world in the field of human rights (the links also point out that it's impossible to investigate thoroughly because the Chinese Government won't allow access).
I'm supposed to believe some random Youtuber over them? That's what you're telling me? That's especially hilarious because the very article we're discussing is about manipulating social media, including creating videos specifically for youtube.
Or are you nitpicking the 1M number? If it's 10,000 or 1 million it's still a gross violation of human rights.
They are allegations based on western media reports, which themselves are based on dubious evidences.
Everything so far regarding Xinjiang are all one-sided news rehashing from a few individuals, while the US intelligence with its cutting-edge spy satellites, field agents, cannot find any concrete evidences. Just coincidence?
The Liberian Ministry of Agriculture hasn’t presented any evidence publicly, either. And there’s no mention of it in the Beatles’ 1969 album Abbey Road. I guess you would like to enter these facts into the record as well.
You don’t get to pick and choose the evidence that is presented against you. Evidence that you have failed to explain beyond claiming a grand “media conspiracy”. This is textbook misdirection.
> You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks.
Not true.
> You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared)
Also not true. FuErDais are praise on TV, movies, etc... Crazy Rich Asians , the movie , was a huge hit in China for example, etc... Money and superficiality have always being huge in China (even to get married, you need to buy a house , a car, and give the girl's family money (CaiLi)).
> You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat
Highly depends on where you work. But is not standarized, and there have been recently a huge push back from the goverment about this.
> You cannot go beyond China's intranet
Literally that's what VPNs are for, many chinese companies offer VPN services to mainland users, etc.
All other points are more or less right. Also, p*rn is illegal in most places. I wouldn't live there, but posting lies here wont help anyone.
> You cannot transfer money out of country legally
True. It used to be 50k limit per year. Now because many bureaucratic procedures by banks, it might as well as be zero since you have go to the bank 10+ times. You're talking from a view of a foreigner. I'm talking from a view of native citizen.
> Money and superficiality have always being huge in China
Not so right now which is what I mentioned.
China bars celebrities from showing off wealth and 'extravagant pleasure' on social media
> True. It used to be 50k limit per year. Now because many bureaucratic procedures by banks, it might as well as be zero since you have go to the bank 10+ times. You're talking from a view of a foreigner. I'm talking from a view of native citizen.
Not true, I (and my wife) use our personal accounts to send money back and forth almost every week, so the thousands of chinese students, workers, etc...
Fair enough, I haven’t figured out the exact breakdown from that link, although it seems fairly equally split to me.
Still, that map lends credence to my initial gut feeling, that defending China’s porn ban to someone with a seemingly Western perspective by saying it’s banned in a lot of other places too probably isn’t very effective - they most likely feel the same about these laws where they exist in the rest of Asia, Eastern Europe and in Africa, too. Presumably they’re comparing China to Western Europe and the US here.
Too soon to say. Policy plays a big roles here and chinese policy debates are mysterious. It's possible they want to crash the real estate market, and reverse out of the appreciating real estate setup. Trade off between middle class wealth accumulation and housing affordability.
They're currently reversing out of the college cram school thing. There's some sort of similarity here.
> Will this be the Chinese version of Japan's real-estate crash of the '90s...?
If we are lucky? Otherwise, it could be much worse than that. Vancouver, the Bay Area, and LA got hit hard by Japan's real estate crash, I wonder if history will repeat?
GDP decline of 2-5%, recession: Chinese real estate is 70% of household wealth, and 30% of GDP. Likely these #s are worse, since the government obfuscates data. Home sales is already down 30% y/y.
Pressure on tech and other industries in China: Xi Jing Ping will officially be a dictator, come party congress 2022. Tech and real estate are industries owned by the oligarchs of Shanghai faction, which is against Xi Jing Ping.
Even more societal lockdowns: In the last few months, there were silencing of a #metoo incident, scrubbing of a famous actress from internet, removing discussions of evergrande bankruptcy, and disappearing/reapperance of alibaba's ceo. Look for more of these.
No war attempt on Taiwan in the near future: between real estate collapse, economic decline, coal shortage, food shortage, inflation, huge debts, and covid waves/lockdowns, CCP won't have any appetite.
Suicidal war attempt on Taiwan: CCP may get desperate when riots broke out, or need a victory to focus its citizen's outrage elsewhere. Then they'll face the combined forces of western countries, and will have to suffer through economic sanctions.
By what mechanism? Most of the world more or less officially recognizes China's claim on Taiwan. I think it would be horrifically sad and disappointing, but more or less ignored, like Hong Kong.
China will choose internal stability over external connections. Internal investors (party officials, chineses companies and private investors will receive partial reparations for their lost investments - or goods (flats etc.)
International Investors like BlackRock will take a massive bath.
> China is almost ready to be able to take over Taiwan by force
I keep seeing this argument. Let me explain why Taiwan will be free from China's attack for the next 30-50 years (long enough for Xi JinPing to expire)
- US protection. If there's one thing both parties in US agrees on, it's against China. Biden just emphatically committed protection for Taiwan and peace in the south east Asia. There are many US warships sailing up and down Taiwan straits. There are many military deals and cooperations with Taiwan. TSMC is a critical part of the world's electronic supply chain. Taiwan is a critical part of the island chain strategy to contain China, since it acts as an unsinkable carrier against China.
- China's military is only starting up. It doesn't even have capability to produce its own jet engines or carriers. Its strength lies in the large # of soldiers, which have to be transported. And its large # of ships, which are mostly coast guard/civilian level, and can be sank relatively easily. China's military is about 3-4 generations behind US, and currently is no match for the 10X power from US and its allies
- United democracies. US and its many allies are now coordinating naval exercises in the Region. Japan. Australia. India. UK, France, and Germany now have warships in the region as well. South Korea and Taiwan are now increasing its military defenses. These firepowers are 90% of the world's military right now.
- Taiwan as a fortified island. Fortified islands are hard to take, as evident in the modern war histories. There are only a few times in the year that China can safely cross the straits without fearing typhoons or rough sea. And landing only on a few spots. Especially if the island is armed with the latest war technologies from US, and has the missile capability to strike Beijing, or the three gorges dam which will then wipe out millions of Chinese. Taiwan is now producing domestic submarines, long range missiles, and ship missiles. You'll want to remember that Taiwan has very sophisticated electronic capabilities, so the arms it is starting to produce will be very good.
- China only gets one shot at attacking. After which, it will get economically sanctioned into oblivion by the world economies. Because otherwise Japan, South Korea, and other island nations near China can be attacked with similar attempts as well. Since China mainly imports most of its resources, and is export focused, it will sank into a deep economic depression filled with local riots.
Between Hong Kong and the Ukraine those democracies have shown little willingness for action. TSMC may be Taiwans trick to change that but with all these Fabs outside Taiwan who knows if that will remain the case.
> There are only a few times in the year that China can safely cross the straits without fearing typhoons or rough sea.
Thyphoons don't come out of nowhere and there are usually at most a couple per year.
> And landing only on a few spots.
Could you expand on that? Almost the entire west coast is flat with normal beaches that don't seem particular incessible.
I really hope that Taiwan will remain independent, but I don't think relying on Taiwan's defenses or western military support will guarantee that. The economic argument is a better one - there is a lot of chinese investment around the world that they probably don't want to risk and the world is (slowly) starting to realize that it might be a good idea to have manufacturing capacity outside of china.
Large areas of the west coast facing China are reclaimed land filled with very narrow roads and aquaculture ponds. Think of the bocage country in Normandy and then fill all the central fields with water. There are really only four coastal areas with the roads needed to move an army off the beach at speed.
Watching James Bond this weekend made me sad. No mention of China at all, as the cause of many geopolitical crisis around the world, as well as the source of atrocious acts against muslims (go check out cnn's china whistlerblower interview recently that detailed the hanging of uighurs and raping of them). If you want a super evil villain, look no further than Xi Jing ping and the CCP, who has threatened literally most democracies (nuke Australia/Japan, conquer Taiwan), sent pirate ships to plunder all sealives around the world, continue to build up coal power plants to increase global warming, and let's not forget COVID.
Also, let's not forget CCP is the reason why North Korea still exists and why Vietnam is still a communist country.
The West really, really wants to shut its eyes on China very tight. We need to deny the West this comfort.
That's a paradoxal reaction. It's like somebody being raped tries to cover her face to not to see her rapist.
Not seeing a rapist doesn't change the ground reality of you still being raped. The correct action is not to use hands to cover your face, but to punch back the assailant.
Recently read an article https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/24/china-great-power-unite... which presents the argument that China, a declining power that is desperate to regain economic momentum by "dominating critical technologies—such as artificial intelligence, quantum computing, and 5G telecommunications", and creating exclusive spheres of influence abroad, will likely start a war much like Germany in 1914 or Japan in 1941. Got me thinking that if the war was guaranteed, would it have to be in Taiwan or south east Asia islands. However, both areas are under a magnifying glass and highly contested. And sea battles do not favor China. But what if 声东击西
- Iran attacks Iraq, and China/Russia gives support? Would Nato/US still have the stomach to go back into Middle East? This would allow China to fully utilize its full ground army force and massive train network that now stretches into Central Asia and Europe. And if Iraq falls, Saudi Arabia, United emirates should fall easily, and those are oil countries that will give China massive resources and wealth. US is fairly self sufficient in terms of oil resources, but not Europe! Europe, under gas and oil resource stranglement, will acquiesce to any demands from Russia + China.
- Turkey attacks Greece on grounds of islands contestations. Again, this would allow China to fully utilize its full ground army force and massive train network that now stretches into Central Asia and Europe. After Greece, Russia can easily retake most of its former colonies, and give China a way into Central Europe.
sounds like western elites have retreated into their forbidden cities and only read false world reports. In what world is China a declining power if one thing its the US that is being isolated by its partners because the deal given is pure shit for the partners economy.
Like Kissinger said "it may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."
> lived there
China is fast devolving into dicatorship's way of life. 2+ years away is along time.
> keep in contact with many friends
Those friends are afraid to say anything negative to a foreigner living outside the guo on a platform closely watched by the government
> consume a lot of TV and podcasts from there
Government approved safe and patriotic contents
You have to be a native citizen who is living there 10+ years to understand