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Yeah, why should it not be desireble to give them access to the good properties of such devices and the internet?


What are the good properties that justify giving kids smart phones?


How much of your current knowledge would you simply lack were it not for the Internet?


It is trivial for a parent to gather materials for the kids without exposing them to billions of strangers/companies with who knows what intent toward them.


I guess it could disable the killswitch


besides that.


"Value generation" is a term I would be somewhat wary of.

To me, in this context, it's similar to drive economic growth on fossil fuel.

Whether in the end it can result in a net benefit (the value is larger than the cost of interacting with it and the cost to sort out the mess later) is likely impossible to say, but I don't think it can simply be judged by short sighted value.


I read it as the latter. With all the bots out there running their own blogs and making commits to projects that was the context I assumed. It reminded me of this one https://crabby-rathbun.github.io/mjrathbun-website/blog/post...


You mean point of local maximum in the mass field?


I didn't read malice into the post, just using a tongue-in-cheek tone.

My reading was "letting them know doing bad choices will not quitely be accepted".

But I may ofcourse read something into it that wasn't meant.


It goes beyond tongue-in-cheek if he's actually filing tickets and forcing engineers to spend their time responding.


Nobody at Mozilla is forced to do anything, including adding obnoxious popups and unwanted features to the browser. If you're inclined to do that, why not go work for Microsoft or Google, where you'll likely be paid more to do it?

Choices have consequences, and user-hostile choices should have developer-hostile consequences.


I don't get it. Why should not tickets be submitted for when a new feature worsen the usability of the product?


The analogy would be mandatory inspections of certain components or manufacturing processes to see that rules and specs are followed while assembling.


This reminds me of Perkeep, but I understand this is more focused on the presentation of the data, while Perkeep was on the data storage. But maybe they could be integrated, or at least support each other's formats.


This is a LLM generated comment, right? Would be nice if that was inticated.


Please don't do this here. If a comment seems unfit for HN, please flag it and email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can have a look.


No it wasn’t. There’s no way I can prove that it wasn’t.

But I can prove that this comment wasn’t LLM generated -> fuck you.

(LLMs don’t swear)


Maybe HN should add "Don't accuse comments of being LLM generated" to the guidelines, because this sure seems like it'll be in the same category as people moaning that they were downvoted or more closely people saying "Have you read the link?"


We've talked about this but we're not adding it to the guidelines. It's already covered indirectly by the established guidelines, and "case law" (in the form of moderator replies) makes it explicit.


I feel like a fuck you to the accuser is sufficient. It proves that you’re not an LLM and is a reasonable response to an unfounded accusation.

LLMs decline when asked to say fuck you. Gemini: “I am unable to respond to that request.” Claude: “I’d rather not use profanity unprompted.”

But allowing a fuck you would need a modification to the rules anyway, I suppose.


How do you think Firefox is making money, since it has no payed features? Hint: it has Google search as the default search engine.


That's my point... The fewer people use Firefox, the less money they get from Google. If you follow the money, it doesn't make sense for them to neglect Firefox.


> The fewer people use Firefox, the less money they get from Google

This is not reflected in the numbers, at least from what I've found: 300m/year in 2011[1], 400+m/year in 2020[2], 485m/year in 2025[3].

[1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/1543269/google-to-pay-...

[2] https://www.pcmag.com/news/mozilla-signs-lucrative-3-year-go...

[3] https://nerdschalk.com/85-of-mozillas-revenue-at-risk-firefo...


Is mozilla being rewarded if the user base provably falls?


Google does not need Mozilla to have a sizable market share. They just need it as a semblance of competition in the browser space.


I can't believe how this is common knowledge, this arrangement between Google and Mozilla as a weak and incompetent "competitor" propped up to avoid being accused of monopoly and anti-competitive practice. Why isn't it considered a form of fraud, not even with extra steps - a direct relationship. Maybe there's enough plausible deniability that it's hard to prove criminal intent.

In the browser space, what Apple is doing is awfully manipulative of the market too. It's almost like this situation is being willfully ignored and effectively encouraged by regulators.


Tops make goods money as is. All they need to do is to keep Fx the way it is.

And Google won't be paying more if Firefox becomes something bigger than Chrome. Google has no interest in it. All they need is a spoiler effect.


But Google did pay Mozilla even when Firefox was bigger than Chrome.


Mozilla is simply an antitrust litigation sponge.

Google knows it shouldn't be developing a browser. This paltry pocket change protects their pane of glass moat.


The fewer people use Firefox, the less money they get from Google.

You obviously haven't been following the money.

The statistical global marketshare of Firefox is very close to that of Internet Explorer --- within a single rounding digit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-05-05/why-go...


Firefox users just block trackers, that's why you don't see them.


No. Check Mozilla’s own numbers if you don’t believe tracking stats.

https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity


Firefox users also tend to disable telemetry and any kind of phoning home whatsoever.


Possible perhaps --- but definitely not easy and thus highly unlikely on a broad scale. And this is by design.

The most *easy* and sustainable way to achieve this is by using a fork of Firefox --- aka LibreWolf.

https://github.com/K3V1991/Disable-Firefox-Telemetry-and-Dat...


You’re the one who didn’t follow the money: they’ve made more from Google as their market share has decreased. Neat incentive, huh?


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